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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9230942" data-attributes="member: 18">That's a wild asspull of a figure.I don't believe it for one second. In my personal experience, if there are four or more party members, the chances of one of them being a STR based martial approaches 100%. Looking at Let's Plays and podcasts and Twitch and so on, it's probably like 95%+ but to be fair most of those involve 5+ people groups.It's certainly a lot higher than 50% though, that's just something I don't think even you believe.Rogues only get 2 more Skill proficiencies than other classes, you know that right?Also you keep making this truly meaningless point about "not in their skill list", which is just irrelevant because of custom backgrounds. I've literally never seen a high-WIS character who didn't have Perception, either from their background or race.I think you've totally misunderstood the point.My point is even with low investment, Reliable Talent makes the Rogue better than Bard. You seem to be reading it the other way around, but I haven't made a typo or ADHD error, so that's on you.No.This is mathematically false. They will almost always be ahead. Wisdom is, at best, the third pick for a Ranger (STR or DEX, CON, then WIS). It is at best the second pick for a Rogue with a deathwish. It is the first pick for a Cleric or Druid, and it is trivial to pick up Perception from background or race with either.The "usually" here is totally false.As I said, the Wizard will have the spells prepared needed for the "serious" situations, whereas the Rogue and other skill classes will be allowed to deal with situations where failure IS an option. This is a bit sad, especially as Reliable Talent lets the Rogue also not fail (unless DMs mess with it).Otherwise you seem to be missing the point, and also avoiding the issue that the last time we saw the Wizard in the playtest, it no longer needed to prepare ANY utility spell you could wait a few minutes for (which is 95% of them). Really hoping that gets nerfed.This is 100% DM Fiat. None of this is rules-supported, and it's absolutely down to you having a very generous DM who liked what you were doing. Some of it is explicitly against the rules - tying a rope around someone's foot in combat has to be an attack, for god's sake, and Mage Hand cannot attack!Furthermore, most of this could be done by any PC who had Mage Hand (Legerdemain doesn't really help here, with the exception of stealing a spell component pouch - stealing a spell focus would be impossible in combat, that's got to be an attack - even then very few enemy casters use spells requiring components), which, I should note, is a cantrip not a Rogue ability, so really supports my point about Rogues NOT being versatile because you have to rely on having a cantrip!I'm sure you had a good time with that PC and the kindly DM you played with, but that doesn't make Rogues themselves versatile. It means cantrips and spells + a very generous DM = a good time.</blockquote>

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