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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9238961" data-attributes="member: 23751">Most games never make it to 10th level.  The vast majority actually.  Prior to that you get one, maybe two attacks a round in combat, and combat is the place where you notice the bonuses the best.15% means 3 extra hits every 20 swings, and with one attack it will take you 4-5 fights to reach 20 swings. That's less than 1 extra hit per fight. With the randomness of the d20 roll, it's not possible to notice if your hitting well is due to random luck, or that less than 1 extra hit per fight.  You just can't know.  Add to that 5e's balance around bags of hit points and that extra hit doesn't do much of anything even when it happens.And that's at +3!!!  +1 and +2 are even less noticeable.If we are talking ability checks and not combat, the very few extra successes are spread out over a much longer period of time and are even less noticeable.I didn't say lost meaning. I said means far less, and that's factually true.  In a bounded system where you don't need to keep scraping up higher and higher bonuses like in prior editions, bonuses mean far less.  Not only do you not fall behind if you don't get them, you don't even need them to do very well.  I already showed a CR 10 creature with DCs of 14.By the time you are making those DCs saves, there are other things in play to help you make saves.  And that's for the 3% of campaigns that reach level 15+  Others aren't seeing save DCs of 20+ unless the DM is not using the 5e DC system as written and intended.Then the DM is misusing the DC system to do that.  The overwhelming majority of DCs in the bounded 5e system, if DCs are assigned as the game intends, will be 10-15.  If the DM is artificially inflating the DCs past what is appropriate just so that he can challenge the expertise rogue or bard with a high stat bonus, then the resulting problems with the other PCs are the DM's fault, not that of the 5e system.If going by 5e RAW, bonuses don't matter much. If the DM is creating a problem where bonuses start to matter more like you suggest above, that's on the DM.  I'm still not wrong with my general claim about bonuses not mattering much in 5e.  I'm not talking about games with DM created problems.  I'm talking about the game as written.</blockquote>

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