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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9245624" data-attributes="member: 93670">I don't know if 3.0 was different from 3.5 here but That bold stuff is wrong for 3.5 at least.  A 3.x fighter could get +10 to jump much nooner than level 13[spoiler="3.5 phb61"]ACQUIRING SKILL RANKS Ranks indicate how much training or experience your character has with a given skill. Each of his or her skills has a rank, from 0 (for a skill in which your character has no training at all) to a number equal to 3 + character level (for a character who has increased a skill to its maximum rank). When making a skill check, you add your skill ranks to the roll as part of the skill modifier, so the more ranks you have, the higher your skill check result will be. [/spoiler][/spoiler]A PC only needed level 7 for +10 from skill ranks if a skill was a class skill.  That dc30 got easier still for a couple reasons though. In no particular order...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The fact that +2/+4/etc attribute items were fairly common & could be reasonably expected to have a +2 before or soon after level 7 if they did not already have one.  That could bring the requirement on the roll or the skill bonus down by a point through having +5 from str in</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Skill kits" could add a +2 circumstance bonus, they were described on phb129 & I'd be surprised if there wasn't some bit of adventuring gear type mundane equipment for jump in some splatbook.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">PHB77 [ispoiler]"Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Tumble, you get a +2 bonus on Jump checks. "[/ispoiler]</li> </ul>Just the PHB alone puts +10 to jump in 3.5 available at level five. through 5 ranks of jump  5 ranks of tumble (now +7 jump from synergy) & a downright sub par 16 strength to bring the total up to +10 without any jump specific equipment.  A level 13 fighter with 5 ranks in tumble maxed jump & a 20 or (more likely) 22 in strength could theoretically have somewhere around  +23 or +24 jump.That DC30 could be made even easier if the party can make it so there's no real penalty for failure because[spoiler="phb65 taking 10/20"] Checks without Rolls A skill check represents an attempt to accomplish some goal, usually while under some sort of time pressure or distraction. Sometimes, though, a character can use a skill under more favorable conditions and eliminate the luck factor. Taking 10: When your character is not being threatened or dis-tracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Dis-tractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure —you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help (such as using Climb to ascend a knotted rope, or using Heal to give a wounded PC long-term care). For example, Krusk the barbarian has a Climb skill modifier of +6 (4 ranks, +3 Strength modifier, –1 penalty for wearing studded leather armor). The steep, rocky slope he’s climbing has a Climb DC of 10. With a little care, he can take 10 and succeed automatically. But partway up the slope, a goblin scout begins pelting him with sling stones. Krusk needs to make a Climb check to get up to the goblin, and this time he can’t simply take 10. If his player rolls 4 or higher on 1d20, he succeeds. Taking 20: When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20. Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes twenty times as long as making a single check would take. Since taking 20 assumes that the character will fail many times before succeeding, if you did attempt to take 20 on a skill that carries penalties for failure (for instance, a Disable Device check to disarm a trap), your character would automatically incur those penalties before he or she could complete the task (in this case, the character would most likely set off the trap). Common “take 20” skills include Escape Artist, Open Lock, and Search. For example, Krusk comes to a cliff face. He attempts to take 10, for a result of 16 (10 plus his +6 skill modifier), but the DC is 20, and the DM tells him that he fails to make progress up the cliff. (His check is at least high enough that he does not fall.) Krusk cannot take 20 because there is a penalty associated with failure (falling, in this case). He can try over and over, and eventually he may succeed, but he might fall one or more times in the process. Later, Krusk finds a cave in the cliff and searches it. The DM sees in the Search skill description that each 5-foot-square area takes a full-round action to search, and she secretly assigns a DC of 15 to the attempt. She estimates that the floors, walls, and ceiling of the cave make up about ten 5-foot squares, so she tells Krusk’s player that it takes 1 minute (10 rounds) to search the whole cave. Krusk’s player gets a result of 12 on 1d20, adds no skill ranks because Krusk doesn’t have the Search skill, and adds –1 because that is Krusk’s Intelligence modifier. His roll fails. Now the player declares that Krusk is going to search the cavern high and low, taking as long as it takes. The DM takes the original time of 1 minutes and multiplies it by 20, for 20 minutes. That’s how long it takes for Krusk to search the whole cave in exacting detail. Now Krusk’s player treats his roll as if it were 20, for a result of 19. That’s good enough to beat the DC of 15, and Krusk finds an old, bronze key discarded under a loose rock. [/spoiler]If that hypothetical level 5 fighter I mentioned can take 20 through a highjump & ally willing to catch  a harness & rope or whatever for longjump they could just make the dc30 without even needing to roll the d20.  A first level fighter starts with 2+[int mod x4]skill points & then got 2+int mod every level after that making it fairly trivial to get both of those to 5 by 5th plus invest in some other skills with just a 12 or 14 in intelligence.  Given the int13 requirement on combat expertise* it was almost guaranteed to have one of those on a fighter who  would be picking up their sixth feat at level 6(probably jumping off to a PrC  with five feats at 6 or six feats at 7)* For those who don't know CE was a prerequisite for a ton of extremely powerful martial feats.</blockquote>

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