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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 9247477" data-attributes="member: 12731">Sure. But that's not what 5th Edition D&D offers.All you're accomplishing by limiting Athletics and Acrobatics is driving players of martial characters towards magic.You're not actually accomplishing what I think is your goal.What you call "extremely mobile" classes is, in actuality, every class. Your line of thinking might be relevant for a game of AD&D or even 3rd Edition. But certainly not 5E.5E just don't limit your choices this way. Any character worth his salt will either get the range or the mobility to do his job while minimizing the number of "lost" rounds where you can't unload damage properly.The Gimli archetype, the slow melee tank character, is a hopelessly outclassed character build in 5E.Is this a good thing? Not saying it necessarily is. I am just observing that the 5E designers did not preserve a couple of fundamental assumptions that once were true when it comes to fantasy tabletop roleplaying. It used to be that if you wanted range and/or mobility you had to make significant compromises. This was, of course, intentional, to make sure the "Conan archetype" remained a viable, if not preferred, build choice.But for the slow melee tank character build to be as central as you assume, certain things need to be in place. Hit points is the first (and D&D hasn't changed this). But the cost for range and speed need also to be considerable, and here 5E just doesn't deliver. Remember, Strength used to be completely mandatory for a warrior. But 5E removed a lot of restrictions on ranged combat and ranged damage. And, as we're discussing, you don't actually NEED Athletics and Acrobatics - they just can't keep up with better (though magical) options.Or rather, 5E caters to a slightly different crowd. The ideal has pretty conclusively swinged away from the Schwarzenegger build. People nowadays want even slim dexterous characters to be awesome damage dealers (anime characters, girlboss characters, the list goes on...), and 5E lets you do that. You simply don't have to pay nearly as much to outrange and outspeed many monsters... (if you previously had to, somewhat simplistically, pay "switching from fighter to monk class" now you simply pay "take a feat") so that obviously becomes the better strategy.</blockquote>

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