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<blockquote data-quote="Patryn of Elvenshae" data-source="post: 2100644" data-attributes="member: 23094">I disagree with &quot;strong.&quot;&nbsp; Moreover, the rules you quote just say that tiny things can't flank anything.&nbsp; The problem, of course, is that small creatures can't even flank each other - even in melee combat.&nbsp; I pity grig rogues (tiny fey) and their inability to sneak attack other grigs once combat has begun.No.&nbsp; Note, instead, that the very first words are &quot;when making a melee attack, you [get a particular named bonus given some conditions].&quot;It is no different than, &quot;When affected by a Bless spell, you gain a +1 morale bonus on saves vs. fear.&quot;If I never use my +1 morale bonus on a save vs. fear, was I still blessed?&nbsp; Of course.If I never use my +2 flanking bonus on melee attacks, was I still flanking?&nbsp; Of course (in 3.5).I'm not sure how you can argue that you were blessed, when the section itself begins with the stipulation that you must make a save vs. fear.Again, read the description of invisibility.&nbsp; If I am invisible, you are denied your Dex bonus to AC.&nbsp; If you have Uncanny Dodge, you get to keep your Dex bonus to AC.&nbsp; Am I still invisible?&nbsp; Yes, of course.Similarly, if I am flanking, I get a +2 flanking bonus on melee attack rolls.&nbsp; If I don't make a melee attack, I don't get a +2 flanking bonus.&nbsp; Am I still flanking?&nbsp; Yes, of course.Note that the answer to the second question changed in the 3.0 -&gt; 3.5 revision.&nbsp; In 3.0, the answer would instead be, &quot;No - you are only flanking when making a melee attack.&quot;In 3.0, the method to determine the flanking condition was as follows:In 3.5, that text was removed, and the method to determine the flanking condition was amended to:Notice the difference?Yep, and if you think about all the tiny fey rogues in the world, that's a damn silly rule.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Patryn of Elvenshae, post: 2100644, member: 23094"] I disagree with "strong." Moreover, the rules you quote just say that tiny things can't flank anything. The problem, of course, is that small creatures can't even flank [b]each other[/b] - even in melee combat. I pity grig rogues (tiny fey) and their inability to sneak attack other grigs once combat has begun. No. Note, instead, that the very first words are "when making a melee attack, you [get a particular named bonus given some conditions]." It is no different than, "When affected by a Bless spell, you gain a +1 morale bonus on saves vs. fear." If I never use my +1 morale bonus on a save vs. fear, was I still blessed? Of course. If I never use my +2 flanking bonus on melee attacks, was I still flanking? Of course (in 3.5). I'm not sure how you can argue that you were blessed, when the section itself begins with the stipulation that you must make a save vs. fear. Again, read the description of invisibility. If I am invisible, you are denied your Dex bonus to AC. If you have Uncanny Dodge, you get to keep your Dex bonus to AC. Am I still invisible? Yes, of course. Similarly, if I am flanking, I get a +2 flanking bonus on melee attack rolls. If I don't make a melee attack, I don't get a +2 flanking bonus. Am I still flanking? Yes, of course. Note that the answer to the second question changed in the 3.0 -> 3.5 revision. In 3.0, the answer would instead be, "No - you are only flanking when making a melee attack." In 3.0, the method to determine the flanking condition was as follows: In 3.5, that text was [b]removed[/b], and the method to determine the flanking condition was amended to: Notice the difference? Yep, and if you think about all the tiny fey rogues in the world, that's a damn silly rule. [/QUOTE]

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