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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Gryphon" data-source="post: 2114404" data-attributes="member: 17286">What the first line does is showthe bonus (When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus), andthe requirements (if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent's opposite border or opposite corner) for flanking which must still be active when you make an attack. Of couse it doesn't say when in position to, or whatever else as the bonus can only be used when a flanking character attacks the defending character. Nowhere does it say the opponent is not flanked before or after the attack, it just exhibits when the bonus is used and what is required to receive the bonus. Note it also says in the requirements that the threatening character must be on the opponents opposite border or corner to you, which says very clearly that both characters must be in melee combat as they must be on the opposite border or corner.  The line test is a subsequent test to those listed in paragraph one, for creatures with reach who are in melee combat, but are not in base to base contact with the target, and is not a sufficient condition by itself. Of course it doesn't say anything about threatening or anything else because that has been covered in paragraph one, and is a subsequent test to that paragraph not the primary test. Therefore the house rules are yours. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />   I never said the examples were exhaustive, I said that they are all example of flanking. If they were exhaustive they'd need their own library of books.  You've even managed to twist my statement. The bonus has never been the condition, the requirements listed after the bonus are the conditions of flanking. The bonus is what you get when you attack a target you flank. The creature your unarmed character is attacking isn't actually flanked. While the unarmed character with your reasoning gains a flanking bonus because the other character threatens the target (I wouldn't allow it) the reverse isn't true so the creature isn't flanked. Thanks for that, as I've just noticed a huge hole in your interpretation. Assuming the formians again, your system could never flank them unless all your attackers were in melee combat and armed as if two characters are on opposite sides of a formain and at least one is unarmed, as soon as the character opposite the unarmed (non-threatening character) attacks the formians are no longer flanked (as the character opposite him doesn't threaten the target which is a prerequisite of flanking).  I gave you a lot of very good reasons, your interpretation just won't allow you to see them. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />   No my position is that you can be flanking while in melee combat, when it is not your turn to attack as long as the requirements are met. That means that a character opposite you must be threatening the target, and you must be in the process of a melee attack. By process I mean you are holding a weapon which is capable of a melee attack and you are using it in that way, i.e. your not just holding your sword in your off hand while you cast stoneskin on your turn for example.  Of course the bonus only exists at the moment you make the attack as it is useless otherwise. I have a +2 flanking bonus to attack X creature, since I'm attacking Y creature this round that does me no good does it. Apart from the fact you need to be on the opposite border or corner of your target to be flanking (reading the word border as being able to touch something the other character has, even a reach weapon), no there's no reason you need to be in melee combat. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />   It should enter the equation as the character opposite the attacker must be threatening the target for you to flank it, and IMO unless you both flank the target it isn't flanked (as it isn't flanked all of the time on the attackers actions). Glossary definition of Flank (first line): To be directly on the other side of a character who is being threatened by another character.  No that's slightly out of context (sorry if it was my mistake). When you make a melee attack means just that, if I choose not to make a melee attack I don't get the bonus...pretty clear isn't it. Nowhere does it say I must make a melee attack to flank in all of the flanking text, you're just assuming from the text "When making a melee attack" that's how it works. What it does say is when I do make a melee attack while flanking I'll get a little bonus for my tactical savvy. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />   I choose both paragraphs. You're the only one who thinks the latter half of the first paragraph means nothing about the requirements for flanking and is only linked to gaining the flanking bonus. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />  At least this is increasing my post count, fun isn't it. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></blockquote>

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