[Rokugan] Alternate VP/WP system

[Isawa Sideshow]

One of the biggest complaints with d20 that I see on the L5R-RPG mailing list is that combat isn't lethal enough for high-level characters as compared to the d10 L5R RPG rules. Interestingly enough, no one complains that low-level characters are too fragile by comparison. That said, I'm trying to find an alternate damage system, and I think I've got something that might work, based loosely off of the VP/WP system.

The basics are as follows:
1) All characters have Wound Points (WP) equal to their Constitution. These work very similar to those in Star Wars d20. Whenever WP damage is taken, either through a critical hit or by running out of Vitality Points, the character becomes Fatigued and possibly Stunned (DC 15 Fort save). At 0 WP, the character falls unconscious and starts dying, with death coming at -10 WP. WP are not gained by level, but may be increased through the Toughness feat (+3 WP).

2) All characters have Vitality Points (VP) equal to their Dexterity. These points represent the character's ability to avoid serious damage, either by barely evading blows or by moving the body to make them more minor. VP are not gained by level, but may be increased through the Quickness feat (+3 VP).

3) Critical hits do damage directly to WP. The amount of damage they do, however, does not change; critical multipliers stay the same. Critical hits are much deadlier in this system than in normal d20 rules.

4) Healing spells heal WP first (deep healing), then VP (relieving fatigue and minor wounds).

5) Subdual damage comes from VP, never from WP. At 0 VP, the character is staggered. One more hit, and the character goes unconscious.

6) Monsters work a bit differently. They also gain WP equal to their Con, modified by size. Small, Medium, and Large creatures only gain WP equal to their Con. Tiny creatures get 1/2 of their Con. Diminutive get 1/4 of their Con, and Fine get 1 WP. Huge creatures get 1 1/2 times their Con, Gargantuan get 2 times their Con, and Colossal creatures get 3 times their Con.

7) Monsters get VP equal to the HP indicated in their d20 description. Bigger creatures advance as normal. Class levels do not add VP to a monster.

That's the basics for now. I'm sure it needs work. Criticisms and suggestions are welcome and encouraged.

 

[LoneWolf23]

Hey, that looks like an excellent WP/VP system for Any D&D Game, really. Consider it Stolen.

 

[willpax]

I've been using a system remarkably like this one for a while now.

I have added a few things that further modify the lethality of critical hits, whihc are quite bad in this system:

1) Armor now is half reflection (add to AC) and half damage "soak" (absorb damage, but only when wound points are lost). This makes ACs lower all around, and gives armor a bonus against critical hits.

2) Allowed for a freer shifting of attack bonus to defense (to help prevent that crucial confirmation of a threat).

I've nearly lost two players to shortbows since adopting this system: it does make them suitably cautious, and all combats are rather suspenseful.

 

[Isawa Sideshow]

Some interesting ideas, willpax. I doubt I want to muck around with AC too much, though. I just want something that's relatively easy to plug in to any game, and would prefer not to have to redo all the armor and creature ACs. Well, that, and I want critical hits to be deadly. This is a setting where people regularly slash each other in half with katana, and where even a scrub can theoretically take down a master with one good hit.

Again, interesting ideas, though! Thanks!

 

[las]

Why not take the Polyhedron approch wich the wound points are equal to con and Vitaility are as the hit die are. That what you kinda whanted befor but different. And ctits go to wound points and not vitility and dont muntiply.

 

[Isawa Sideshow]

If I wanted the Shadow Chasers approach, I'd have used that. My system fulfills 2 basic criteria that the Shadow Chasers/Polyhedron/d20 Modern VP/WP system doesn't:

1) I don't want characters to get "healthier" as they gain levels. If their stats go up and thus raise VP or WP, that's fine, but I don't want either VP or WP to increase with character level.

2) I want criticals to be deadly, so I want to keep the multipliers. Does this mean that the Improved Crit feat and keen weapons are much better in this system? Yes. That's fine by me. When 2 people face off with katana, I want there to be a chance that one or both will die from one good hit.

---

Also, I'm pondering whether VP should be based on Dex, or on Con. I'm almost thinking Con score + Dex modifier. How does that sound? Represents ability to take minor hits, with a nod to evasive ability to make wounds less serious.

 

[N Hammer]

I see (or have had) no problem with the Hit Point system in D&D...

One number...easier to keep track of then two numbers...

 

[handforged]

I like the idea of using Con + Dex modifier for the VP. It accomplishes the right idea.

And for those of you who would still like some sort of scaling by level, give a character an extra VP every time their BAB goes up a number. This way, combat oriented characters are better at surviving minor cuts and bruises, etc. as they get better at fighting. Non-combat characters still get more VP as they advance, but slower.

A first level fighter with a Con and Dex of 13 would have 14 VP under either method. At twentieth level, without any relevant stat increases(yeah right) he would have the same number with the unadjusted system, with the adjusted system he would have 33 VP(19+14)

A wizard at 20th level with the same stats would have 24 VP under the scaling system.

~hf

 

[Isawa Sideshow]

Oooh, handforged. I like that idea. Mind if I use it?

So, Wound Points would be equal to your Constitution. Vitality Points would be equal to your Constitution + Dexterity Modifier + Base Attack Bonus.

I think that's got it! A bit of scaling to support the more combatitve classes, but not so much that they can't still be cut down with one good shot. Grim and Gritty without a lot of extra work.