Role-roll, roll-role, just role, just roll, please read the poll.

[Stormonu]

I want those who have a high Charisma score and who have invested points into skills such as Diplomacy to have some meaning, but I'm conflicted on how to do it.

Just as I don't think that someone who has low Strength in real life should be forced to always play-low Strength characters, I think everyone should have the option to play a high Charisma character if they want and not have their options limited by their own social skill limitations.

At the same time, I don't want a single die roll to dominate every social situation or to have utter improbable results because someone pulls out a silver-tongued speech with their 8 Cha character.

In combat, you have to at least tell the DM what you're going to attempt and give a basic idea how you're going to do it ("I'm going to bash the goblin with my long sword!"), and it should be somewhat similar in social situations.

Likewise, it shouldn't fall to one character to make all the rolls; that's as bad as relying on one character to do all the fighting. Ideally, a high Charisma/Diplomacy character should be able to convince someone quicker and more reliably, but lesser characters should have a chance to succeed, though they may have to struggle harder to do so. And they should feel welcome to try their hand at negotiation and such, just like everyone is pretty much coaxed to do something helpful during a fight.

Where you want dramatic tension, I suspect you'd want multiple checks or an extended encounter. For example, the corrupt baron shouldn't be convince to acquiesce his kingdom any more easily than the party has a chance of killing the ancient red dragon in one blow.

Some situations where there is a chance of failure but it's not dramatically important - getting the barmaid to sit and drink with you during downtime, for ex. - might be best handled like encountering a minion; a single check will solve the matter.

The big problem is coming up with a system that dramatically allows characters to influence social situations without either pure RP or dice-rolling to dominate.

Skill challenges were a nice start in the right direction, but they are too formulaic; they should feel as organic as combat in that you know where the starting point is and you have option to achieve success, but it should be open enough to let PC's move toward how they want to achieve victory (and that there are many different forms of victory or defeat).

 

[Wiseblood]

I selected #2. I hate it.

I wish it was roleplay only or even meta-roleplay. Dice should not get involved unless the DM says so or perhaps to resolve a dispute. there should not be a roll to determine anything unless there is an impasse. Kind of like arguing on the net. You might say some witty things or support your side with good solid arguments but without a diceroll only the most fringe cases will be won.

 

[The Shaman]

there should not be a roll to determine anything unless there is an impasse. Kind of like arguing on the net. You might say some witty things or support your side with good solid arguments but without a diceroll only the most fringe cases will be won.

I disagree.

 

[S'mon]

Typically roleplay then roll. Sometimes there will be no roll if the outcome of the roleplay is not in doubt, eg if the NPC has no reason to object to what the PC is saying. Very rarely will I use 'automatic failure' though (as in the DMG 'intimidating the baron' example), I'd rather set a very high DC and if the 2nd level PC makes the DC 30 check, that will have an effect.

 

[S'mon]

I don't tend to 'penalise for poor roleplay' exactly - I don't say "Hm, your acting was poor, -10 to check'. What I do normally do though is require that the player express what they want, what they are saying, in order for a check to be allowed at all. So no 'I Diplomatise him'; I need to be able to visualise what is happening before I can set a DC and/or judge the NPC reaction. My aim is to encourage fun in-character roleplay; punishing weaker players doesn't do that, so it's more like:

1. You must make the attempt.
2. If you do well, you get a lower DC or auto-success.

If a PC is high-CHA I will set up the situation to allow them to easily be cool, but they still need to step-on-up; I have seen a 'charisma black hole' player with a charming swashbuckler PC not do this, but that was 8 or 9 years ago now.

 

[wedgeski]

I'm with the crowd. Get some roleplaying underway, roll dice when necessary, which might be never, then redirect the conversation according to results.

 

[delericho]

Roleplay then roll, then roleplay some more (and maybe roll some more, depending on the situation).

I give bonuses if the approach they take is in keeping with the NPC's personality (by approaching the corrupt guard with a bribe, or approaching the vain noblewoman with flattery, or similar), but do not give bonuses for 'good roleplaying', for two reasons. The first is that good roleplaying is its own reward, but the second is that this tends to overly favour the more charismatic player. (It's also perhaps worth noting that if the dump-Cha, zero-Diplomacy Wizard suddenly turns on the charm whenever the player elects to use his own native charisma, that is not good roleplaying. He's breaking character, which is pretty much the opposite.)

 

[Jhaelen]

Roleplay first, then roll - or don't roll at all (see below).

I give bonuses if the approach they take is in keeping with the NPC's personality (by approaching the corrupt guard with a bribe, or approaching the vain noblewoman with flattery, or similar), but do not give bonuses for 'good roleplaying', for two reasons.

Absolutely! Rewarding a bonus to the roll (or even granting an auto-success!) should happen if the player has the right idea (or happens to be just lucky) and chooses the right approach.

This is also where an (at least in my games) often neglected aspect comes into play: Do your research! If you know you're going to have to deal with an important npc, make sure to find out as much as you can about the npc before meeting her.

If you're pushing all the right buttons, getting what you want should be a lot easier. How much easier also depends on the consequences of making or failing a check:
For more or less trivial consequences auto-successes are perfectly fine, but if it's a matter of life and death, roll them dice!

 

[Wiseblood]

I disagree.

Dang, I can't beat that my ranks are tied up in locksmithing. You are 7 levels higher and appear to be a spellcaster of some sort.

Wiseblood: Runs away.....

 

[Thanee]

Usually #1 with RP granting bonuses or penalties to the roll.

Sometimes #2.

Bye
Thanee