Roleplaying NPC reactions to bard tricks?

[jasin]

Imagine the following situation: the party gets attacked by orcs, and the bard's diplomacy check is high enough to convince to listen at least for a moment. Then he tries to bluff the orcs into listening to him sing, planning to fascinate them and suggest to one of them that he should defend the bard should fighting break out.

Now, tricks like these are a staple of the genre, and I'm reluctant to make them too difficult for the bard (especially considering the bard is widely considered somewhat underpowered).

However, in D&D, even stupid brutes like orcs could be well aware that bards can do dangerous things with their song.

How do you treat such attempts from bards IYC? Is "I just want you to hear a song, no harm intended" a -5 (puts the target at some risk) or a -20 (way out there, almost too incredible to believe) bluff? For us D&D players, it's -20. We've read too many fantasy stories to allow magical singers to do some "innocent" singing. But what about creatures in the game world? Do they say "he's got to be a bard, he's trying to mess with our heads!" and attack, or stand and listen (as creatures in stories often do)?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Imagine the following situation: the party gets attacked by orcs, and the bard's diplomacy check is high enough to convince to listen at least for a moment. Then he tries to bluff the orcs into listening to him sing, planning to fascinate them and suggest to one of them that he should defend the bard should fighting break out.

Now, tricks like these are a staple of the genre, and I'm reluctant to make them too difficult for the bard (especially considering the bard is widely considered somewhat underpowered).

However, in D&D, even stupid brutes like orcs could be well aware that bards can do dangerous things with their song.

Well, actually the bard convinces everyone to stop fighting, says 'just a moment' and unslings his instrument (which is an unmodified bluff vs sense motive - the action is neither nice nor deleterious) and then starts playing. It's a standard action, and you're out of initiative, so it just happens straight away. The enthrall check and counter check is made immediately.

If one of the unenthralled orcs THEN decides that he doesn't like the music, that's fine. He most likely will, because he's had to make a will save and noticed the effect. At that point, it's initiative.

 

[Stormrunner]

I would allow such a sequence of actions IMC. However, remember that suggestion is just that - a suggestion, not a compulsion or domination. It can modify a creatures behavior somewhat, but not force it to go against its nature. If the bard player has seen LotR: The Two Towers , remind him that just because the orcs want you alive doesn't mean you're going to be happy .

In this case, if fighting starts, the suggestible orc is likely to yell "Dibs on the pretty one!", then knock the bard over the head (attacking for subdual damage), tie him up, and drag him off to be forced to make more nice music.

 

[jasin]

However, remember that suggestion is just that - a suggestion, not a compulsion or domination.

Actually, suggestion is a (Compulsion) effect.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Wouldn't the bard have to make a Diplomacy check against a Hostile opponent first? If he can make that check, I'd allow him to (temporarily) disrupt the attack.

Of course, I don't think the DM should always allow a good Diplomacy check to prevent an attack. If I REALLY hate my neighbour, no amount of talking is going to prevent me from sprinkling salt on his lawn