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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blackbrrd" data-source="post: 6103088" data-attributes="member: 63962">No problem getting "singled out", I did write that post to show a completely different view from what you presented. I am currently playing 4e (as a player) and have DM-ed two different 4e campaigns (short ones).Sure 4e was a bit bland with just the PHB and I agree that adding a few books to make it have some more width and depth will probably make it better. At the same time there is no need for you to buy the 10 essential books at all. Actually you don't have to buy any of them.Even if there are around 20-30 books for 4e that are "core" you as a player - or dm don't have to go along with that. Personally, I think it's just too much "stuff" and it detracts from my game. The reason I went for just PHB/DMG/MM for my 3e game wasn't that I didn't want it to complicate and clutter up my game. I had access to basically every book since two of my players buys just about every book that gets published for DnD.It seems that you feel you have to buy every book that gets published - well you don't. Get the 2-3-4 whatever amount of books you feel comfortable with and stop there. I am currently playing 4e and none of the other players have any grasp on the character creation process. There is just too much information. The DM has some grasp of it, but not great.In my view, 3e was pretty smart with the limited number of core classes and a large number of prestige classes. I think 4e messed that up with its jumble of 20-40 core classes. In addition, 4e is really really really verbose when it comes to presentation and I am not enjoying that aspect of the game. The entry into the game is just too big, and presenting it all as core is messy.... At the same time, I do have a free will and I won't put up with it and I am going to limit the resources available for character creation for my next campaign. I am doing it to get focus back to the role-playing aspect of character creation and back from the mechanical aspect. If there is a player that has a concept that won't work with that subset of rules, I will most likely just house-rule it, just as I did with my 3e Red Hand of Doom campaign.Conclusion:I think 4e can be a bit messy and 20-30 "core" books is too much. Due to that I will be limiting the books used in my game. I will probably use 3-5 of the books. A bit more than in 3e, but that's mainly due to 4e being very verbose. If any of the players feel their Druid or whatever is a bit limited due to few options, I am going to have some fun giving away some house-ruled bonuses. An example from my 3e game was the wizard that got the ability to spontanous convert spells into summoning/conjuration spells.</blockquote>

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