Roman "knights" ?? - need ideas

[Daiymo]

I love Roman style games-once played in a Gurps game set in an early industrialized era Rome that never fell and colonized the New World.

I would agree with Ace. Rome didn't really have knights in the Middle Age definition of the word. The equestrian class were the patricians, the uper classes who ruled Rome, were the generals and senators.

Most of the legions were infantry but many auxiliary were calvary units.

In the game I played in classes were roughly as follows

3 social classes- patrician, plebeian, or barbarian

Then "professions"

equestrian (like a 3e aristocrat some similarity to the Rokugan courtier even)
auxilary (light infantry sort of like a ranger/scout)
gladiator/legionairre(heavy fighter, depending on the social status)
sorcerer
priest (cleric)
oracle (sort of a loremaster/bard)

 

[mmadsen]

As others have pointed out, the Roman equestrian class was a noble class, and its young men served on horseback; they were knights. The Roman cavalry sword, the spatha, resembled the later medieval knight's sword. Also, the German barbarians were famed for their cavalry; Caesar eventually used them as his personal bodyguard.

In the eastern empire, the Byzantines had their famous cataphracts, horsemen armored from head to toe. They used both bows and spears (lances).

 

[Emiricol]

Being a noble on a horse with a sword doesn't make one a knight, unfortunately. The Byzantine cavalry also isn't quite the knight I'm looking for - anyone can be heavily armored and on a horse.

I think I'm going to use some of that, though, and also run with the ball from Eosin's idea, with some additional narrative on the classes for the general realm writeup.

So, for the "knights" what I have so far is this:

====================


A group of fanatics devoted to the ultimate development of tactics, originally comprised entirely (and still mostly) of Hobgoblins - often third or fourth sons not in line for any real inheritence.

In the beginning, such Hobgoblins would be fully equipped by their wealthy family and sent out into the world. Gradually, groups of these disenfranchised nobles created a loose association dedicated to sharing information and providing aid to one another.

As time went on, as is the nature of Hobgoblins, a strict heirarchy developed above the simple operative level. It was at this point that the organization began to accept contracts for services, much like a mercenary body. The knights themselves cared nothing for the cause, but if unusual battlefield tactics and highly trained warriors were required, then the right amount of money could get the job done.

Over the last few decades, the organization has rapidly expanded into neighboring realms, with Chapter Houses in most of the largest cities. As a result, races other than Hobgoblins are now finding their way into the organization, albeit in small numbers, so long as they wish to pursue the perfection of tactics above all else.

One side effect of this expansion, besides the recruitment of members of different races, has been the expansion of the original vision to include matters beyond the battlefield. The organization has always made use of spies and any number of "unorthodox methods" to accomplish their mission, but there is a growing realization that these endeavors themselves require a variety of tactics to succeed.

Thus now are spies and rogues, assassins and mages accepted into the ranks of the organization. A growing trend, though certainly not the dominant one, is for a group of individuals with widely different skillsets to join together into a special team that contracts out and works together. These teams are semi-autonomous, and able to handle a wide variety of jobs - the skills of each adding to the capabilities of the team as a whole. For large jobs, teams sometimes join together to accomplish a particularly difficult mission.

Each Chapter House reports to a regional council, which in turn reports to the organization head in Doluhre, Ulruz. The group is outside of any political stance, being concerned merely with the ultimate perfection of tactics in all its forms. To this end, teams and individuals are consistenly rated on their experience, performance and results. The resulting rating can mean a huge difference in terms of the individual or team one can hire for a given amount of money.

Recognizing that sometimes hirers and agents don't want to be known publically, the Chapter Houses act as blind agents. This means that the team or individual often will not know who hired them, and also that no one can trace a given mission to the hirer. Naturally, this is expedient to many governments and employers...

=====================

Anyway, that's what I have so far. I'd appreciate comments, insults (jk) constructive criticism - I know my players won't be polite if there's a blatant hole...

 

[Daiymo]

Sounds good. In many ways this order is similar to the Knights Templar of the Middle Ages. It has a different slant, perhaps a bit less religious, but I like how it was formed of third and fourth sons who had no chance of inheiratance.

Does this order have a name? This group has alot of possibilites. They could become a force behind the throne, much like the Janissaries in the Ottoman Empire, or an external threat to established kingdoms nearby-again like the Templars.

As such I think there's no real need to get hung up on the "knight" idea. Any order-mercenary or not has degrees of hierarchy. Even the chivalric knight developed out of less structured ideas of fealty as the Roman Empire fell-the Saxon idea of a Lord and Thanes for example. In fact a NE order of humaniods may be better pattered after this "earlier" version of the chevalier than the later Middle Ages version.

 

[Emiricol]

I haven't really come up with a name yet Just going off the top of my head, there. I think I'll want a unique code of honor and such, and I just added a bit more detail.

I could definitely see them becoming a sort of force behind the throne, and the will of a chapter house in some country might carry a lot of weight if the local rulers felt that irritating the organization might get a dozen teams hunting for them I hadn't thought of the Teutonic knights, but that'll be a great source of inspiration too I think! Hmm...

 

[mmadsen]

Being a noble on a horse with a sword doesn't make one a knight, unfortunately.

What does then? A knight is heavy cavalry, a noble horseman. In most languages, the word for knight is the word for horseman: Ritter, chevalier, caballero, cavaliere. His characteristic weapon is the lance though, not the sword.

 

[Emiricol]

I'd suggest that, at least in terms of D&D-style, there's a subtle difference between a knight/knightly order, and a bunch of Fighters on horses.

That differentiator varies from order to order, though, and as always the Devil is in the details...

 

[Mobius]

Also, the German barbarians were famed for their cavalry; Caesar eventually used them as his personal bodyguard.

I don't know if I agree at this point. The influx of Germanic troops generally came later in the Roman empire as the military campaigns of Augustus and Auralius brought Rome into contact with the Germanic tribes past the Danube river. Caesar himself met many more Celts (Gauls and British tribes) than he ever did Germanics, though he did treat with the Saxoni to the north of Gaul on occasion and used them as allies/pawns in his war on the Gallic tribes. Perhaps he recruited from this group, but I have not read of this myself.

Of course, near the end of the Roman empire, the legions were more German than Roman, and that is why the Visigoths, Ostragoths and Vandals found it so easy to supplant Rome on the Italian and Iberian peninsulae (the Vandals crossed to modern day Algeria and then moved west on the other side of the Mediterranean). If your enemies speak German like you do, then it is pretty hard to think of them as enemies at all...

 

[Mik]

Just the interject with a bit of historical science... you can't have heavily armored cavalry without the invention or introduction of stirrups. The knight as we think of it is highly dependent on the stirrup allowing a rider to use the force of a mount's charge in an attack. Earlier cavalry tactics were typically chasing and harrying.

So, if your culture's military tactics are based on the Roman form, there's no technological precedent for armored cavalry.

Now, if your hobgoblins managed to be the first culture to develop stirrups (possibly by accidentally stepping in equipment loops tied to their saddles), then you have a unit that will cause a dramatic change in the face of warfare... and which will need a lot of money to field troops. Horses, tack, feed, armor, and logistical support for a heavy cavalry unit are a massive expense, which is why cavalry service became a mark of, or requirement of, the nobility in Western Europe.

Just adding my cents.
=Mik

 

[Ranger REG]

"WHAT IF" Scenario

I've always wondered what happened if the Roman Empire had survived and developed into the Middle Age?

Of course we may not have the Code of Chivalry unless of course, Christianity or another religious institution (the Roman Sun God) would established that for the Roman Equestrian class and above.

I wonder if FVLMINATA RPG would provide insight the development of the Roman culture, despite their setting includes firearms technology.