Romance of the Three Kingdoms/Ancient China D&D? (my players KEEP OUT)

Emperor Valerian said:
Heh. My players and I all went to see Hero yesterday. I loved that movie. :)

The strategist idea sounds interesting for one of my PCs... the hengeyokai rogue. She's planning on fighting with twin warfans, which I find cool and interesting. Perhaps that could be an adventure once the local prefect notices the party's abilities at slaying things or safeguarding villages.

I'm thinking this first session of putting them up against either a haunt or a gloomwing (both from the creature catalogue). Simple way for them to acquire a reputation for the local prefect to notice, which will lead them to bigger and better things (yet to be decided).

I want to have a Mongol-type people in my campaign (as a possible plot device, BBEG should I swing that way maybe), but I want them to be something intelligent, but not human. Something frightening, as frightening as the Chin generals were when Chingis Khan's armies roared through northern China. Centaurs might be neat, but they're not dark enough. Any ideas?

I would vote against having any Mongol-types being blatantly evil. I mean, I don't know that many blatantly evil BBEG types that stimulated world trade, popularized diplomatic immunity as opposed to hostages, encouraged a secular meritocracy, introduced paper currency, and encouraged international intellectual discourse...and kicked a lot of ass.
 

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I know IRL they weren't evil. Matter of fact one of my favorite commanders in history was Subotai (It takes some talent to smash through the Kievan Rus, annihilate 40,000 Hungarian knights, and crush an army of the Holy Roman Empire at Liegnitz all with maybe 30,000 troops altogether). :)

Its more I'd like to have this kind of BBEG in reserve in case I can't think of anything else for a long-term bad group for the PCs to struggle against in their mid to upper levels. And considering the PCs are from a civilized area, a nomadic people intent on raiding/conquest would be something frightening... its hards to get more epic in feel than resisting an outside invasion (at least in my D&D experience).
 
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Emperor Valerian said:
I know IRL they weren't evil. Matter of fact one of my favorite commanders in history was Subotai (It takes some talent to smash through the Kievan Rus, annihilate 40,000 Hungarian knights, and crush an army of the Holy Roman Empire at Liegnitz all with maybe 30,000 troops altogether). :)

Its more I'd like to have this kind of BBEG in reserve in case I can't think of anything else for a long-term bad group for the PCs to struggle against in their mid to upper levels. And considering the PCs are from a civilized area, a nomadic people intent on raiding/conquest would be something frightening... its hards to get more epic in feel than resisting an outside invasion (at least in my D&D experience).

Within a feww generations of the death of 'Ghenghis' the Mongol empire began to factionalise, simply a result of its epic size. In your fantasy version this need not happen, the central core of the Khans empire might be a cult formed around the Ideal of the Great Khan and which still mortivates, indeed coordinates the many extremities of the Empire. It (the ideal) need not be evil, and infact much of the Great Khans legacy is benevolent, but the Ideal is uncaring, in its dispassionate isolation it does not comprehend the effects it forces bring to bare as they sweep across the world - can the PCs get close enough to change an Ideal? to oppose a BBEG without form or tangible reality?
 
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Prince of Happiness said:
I've *so* badly want to read "Outlaws of the Marsh!" This is the one which features the sorceror unleashing demons from a cave in the mountains?

Not as a major plot point. There is a lot of Taoist sorcery involved, though; weather control, illusion, that sort of thing, all with the matter-of-fact treatment of "this is what Taoist masters do." (It's notable that in Journey to the West, the Taoists are generally villainous and the Buddhists benevolent, although reformed Taoist masters like Monkey are still allowed to use their cool Taoist powers in the service of the Buddha.) One character, Flea on a Drum, is also apparently the literary forerunner of every kung fu and anime hero that can jump thirty feet onto a rooftop or tree branch without effort.

Oh, further literary recommendation: Barry Hughart's Master Li chronicles. You can get a compiled volume of all three books from Phil & Kaja Foglio's website, I think. A very excellent fantasy China, but easily digestible for the Western reader. I love those books.

Emperor Valerian said:
I want to have a Mongol-type people in my campaign (as a possible plot device, BBEG should I swing that way maybe), but I want them to be something intelligent, but not human. Something frightening, as frightening as the Chin generals were when Chingis Khan's armies roared through northern China. Centaurs might be neat, but they're not dark enough. Any ideas?

I had planned to use centaurs because "dark" is a matter of presentation; it would depend on my players being able to unlearn everything D&D taught them about peaceful forest-dwellers (why in the world do centaurs live in forests and not plains?), and accept vicious horse-men in barbaric armor who are naturally stronger and faster than humans. The threat of being drawn and quartered might take on new meaning if the vicious enemies involved could do it as easily as four human soldiers could grapple a prisoner and cut his head off.

Anyway, there's the usual humanoids: orcs or goblinkin (I think I'd favor bugbears in this role), perhaps with a custom riding beast that's more dangerous than horses. You could perhaps use some slightly tweaked gnolls in this role as well; if a gnoll is able to ride a horse, his disproportionately long arms (assuming a more than casual similarity to hyenas) would make him excellent at reaching down and crushing foot troops. There were once cave hyenas in Siberia, as I understand it, so they might have access to "dire hyenas" without breaking the locale.

Ogres, maybe. If they're more intelligent than normal, they'd be a real threat; or maybe they're dumb but easily led by their ogre magi leaders. Giants are another interesting elite force or leader. Or how about minotaurs, who ride great big bulls (stats as bison, maybe)? Minotaurs are good at being a mix of savage and civilized, and they have the bonus aspect of being man-eaters. (As do gnolls, ogres, and even orcs or goblinkin, if you prefer).

I dunno. Depending on how tough the base critter is, you might have to adjust your idea of how big a "horde" of them is. A horde of minotaurs in the same numbers as Mongols, and you're gonna need one damn big and damn well-defended wall to keep them out.
 

yes i did and i'll tell you right now i lifted maps, npc personalities, and so much more from the dynasty warriors gamesalso by koie. i have not played the last few rottk games but dynasty warriors 2-4 gives you a great visual style for the game and really gave me some ideas for running mass combats in the era they are also full of shallow but expandable storylines that you can grab and run with. having pc's compare kill counts with zhang fei or cao ren after a battle is so sweet. i'm so doing that again. the kessen series is also has some good maps. and in dynasty wariors 4, there is a barbarian king who could easily serve your "invading hordes" purpose, and his people ride elephants.

i also love to plug the dynasty warriors series to anyone with a ps2 simply because they are just so fun, you are a chinese warrior in the three kingdoms era fighting for one of the sides and you run around in the major battles killing hundreds of enemy soldiers as you lead your master's army to victory. i got turned around on the fire ship level (i play with the maps in tight) once and ended up killing 1247 in a single battle never being more then the equivalent of 200 feet from the enemy leader sun quan. man was that a blast.
 
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An interesting twist on the BBEG model would be to use air and fire genasi invading the Kingdoms, emblematic of Yang unbalanced. The warring states period could be another symptom of this imbalance. What can the PCs do to counter such cosmic imbalance? How to restore and strengthen Yin? I haven't thought that far yet, but damn, that would be cool.

:cool:
 
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Prince of Happiness said:
An interesting twist on the BBEG model would be to use air and fire genasi invading the Kingdoms, emblematic of Yang unbalanced. The warring states period could be another symptom of this imbalance. What can the PCs do to counter such cosmic imbalance? How to restore and strengthen Yin? I haven't thought that far yet, but damn, that would be cool.

:cool:

Um... I think we have a winner! :) Though how to implement it...

I was thinking as a continuation of my ideas for the Mongol based people to flip things on their head, so to speak. The Chinese had a dynastic tradition that the Son of Heaven ruled only at Heaven's Will... thus usurpers always claim that they rebelled because the Emperor had lost the favor of the Divine.

Perhaps the players start off (after some reputation building) fighting against the steppe warriors, under the presumption that these are mere invaders. Later on (by some means I do not know yet), they recieve the option of fighting alongside the steppe warriors, to right the balance. Maybe the Emperor or Imperial Court had disturbed the balance in some way, and the steppes have intervened to restore balance and begin a new dynasty under Heaven's Will?

It sounds grand and epic... now to work on the little things.
 

Emperor Valerian said:
Um... I think we have a winner! :) Though how to implement it...

I was thinking as a continuation of my ideas for the Mongol based people to flip things on their head, so to speak. The Chinese had a dynastic tradition that the Son of Heaven ruled only at Heaven's Will... thus usurpers always claim that they rebelled because the Emperor had lost the favor of the Divine.

Perhaps the players start off (after some reputation building) fighting against the steppe warriors, under the presumption that these are mere invaders. Later on (by some means I do not know yet), they recieve the option of fighting alongside the steppe warriors, to right the balance. Maybe the Emperor or Imperial Court had disturbed the balance in some way, and the steppes have intervened to restore balance and begin a new dynasty under Heaven's Will?

It sounds grand and epic... now to work on the little things.

Thanks! I is done haves me a good idee-er! This makes me smiley. :D

Not to mention it sounds like it has some dilemmas for characters who have to decide where to place their loyalties. Best not to back the losing side! I'm getting envious players!
 
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Reading a bit of actual history of the period can't hurt, either. Get a look at examples of art and literature from the historical 3 Kingdoms period, so you can create appropriate flavor text and props. If you can find them, look up floorplans of palaces and temples from the era.

The more real stuff you blend in with your fantasy, the better the flavor will be in the end. I'm not saying to go for historical accuracy, by any means, but just as a genesis for specific details that you can insert willy-nilly to spice things up.
 

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