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Ron Edwards on D&D 4e
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8412093" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Dungeon World is not a scene-based game. It is a PbtA-based game. Here's my most recent post explaining the difference in these approaches (from the current AW thread):</p><p></p><p></p><p>Here's one way the difference plays out in the 4e vs DW context:</p><p></p><p>DW relies on <em>each check </em>to be a possible source of complication - and the pacing considerations of success vs failure are managed via the use of the 6- equal "the GM may make as hard and direct a move as they like" together with the 7-9, which is a success but normally also licences the GM to make some sort of move, which may be quite hard (eg deal damage) though from a constrained list.</p><p></p><p>In 4e, there is generally only success or failure on any given check, because that balance bewteen failure and success and what that means for pacing is played out over the whole of the resolution of the scene. So in non-combat, individual checks in a skill challenge may fail, but the challenge itself is lost only if 3 failures occur - so the <em>end-state</em> of the challenge is success, success but with some failed checks which will mean some things happened that the PCs didn't like, or failure. In combat, similarly, individual PCs may suffer damage or even die, or suffer in other ways (eg lose or have to spend equipment, or suffer a disease or curse, or have someone they care for like a NPC be killed). So even though each check is binary the end-state is just like for a skill challenge.</p><p></p><p>Other games that use a scene-framing approach to "story now" that is very similar to 4e's, rather than the PbtA approach, are HeroWars/Quest (one of the earliest systematic scene-framed RPGs), Cortex+ Heroic (and I suspect Cortex+/Prime more generally - [USER=5142]@Aldarc[/USER] will know). Prince Valiant and Burning Wheel are also scene-based games, but probably not quite as close in their core structure to 4e as those other ones. (That said, the best GM guide I read for 4e was Luke Crane's Adventure Burner for Burning Wheel.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8412093, member: 42582"] Dungeon World is not a scene-based game. It is a PbtA-based game. Here's my most recent post explaining the difference in these approaches (from the current AW thread): Here's one way the difference plays out in the 4e vs DW context: DW relies on [I]each check [/I]to be a possible source of complication - and the pacing considerations of success vs failure are managed via the use of the 6- equal "the GM may make as hard and direct a move as they like" together with the 7-9, which is a success but normally also licences the GM to make some sort of move, which may be quite hard (eg deal damage) though from a constrained list. In 4e, there is generally only success or failure on any given check, because that balance bewteen failure and success and what that means for pacing is played out over the whole of the resolution of the scene. So in non-combat, individual checks in a skill challenge may fail, but the challenge itself is lost only if 3 failures occur - so the [I]end-state[/I] of the challenge is success, success but with some failed checks which will mean some things happened that the PCs didn't like, or failure. In combat, similarly, individual PCs may suffer damage or even die, or suffer in other ways (eg lose or have to spend equipment, or suffer a disease or curse, or have someone they care for like a NPC be killed). So even though each check is binary the end-state is just like for a skill challenge. Other games that use a scene-framing approach to "story now" that is very similar to 4e's, rather than the PbtA approach, are HeroWars/Quest (one of the earliest systematic scene-framed RPGs), Cortex+ Heroic (and I suspect Cortex+/Prime more generally - [USER=5142]@Aldarc[/USER] will know). Prince Valiant and Burning Wheel are also scene-based games, but probably not quite as close in their core structure to 4e as those other ones. (That said, the best GM guide I read for 4e was Luke Crane's Adventure Burner for Burning Wheel.) [/QUOTE]
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