Ropers -- wow

[Starbuck_II]

The third problem is language. Roper speaks Terran and Undercommon. It often happens that no-one in the party can speak those languages. Unless the party mage has a scroll of Comprehend Languages ready (unlikely), many parties cannot negotiate with it even if they want.

Really, I find Undercommon to be a (pardon the pun) common language to take.
I mean, at least 1/3rd of the world speaks it (almost all underground do: Mindflayer, Drow, etc).

I'll admit I never though to talk to a Roper though.

 

[Shin Okada]

I mean, at least 1/3rd of the world speaks it (almost all underground do: Mindflayer, Drow, etc).

Actually, many of the intelligent creatures dwell in underdark or underground area don't understand Undercommon. For example, Grimlock, Minotaur, Troglodyte & Umberhulk, don't.

And, though Drow, Duergar & Mindflayer can speak undercommon, that is not their first language. That means, knowing undercommon rarely allow you to "overhear" their speeches.

On the other hand, many of the above-mentioned races do understand common or languages popular amongst PC races such as dwarven. And of course Myndflayer can use telepathy. So usually, you don't need to use undercommon to negotiate with them.

Roper is one of the very rare exceptions in MM, as a fact.

 

[Voadam]

Ah Ropers!

Breaking the Law! Breaking the Law!

Curious note - their Weakness ability is a non-poisonous, non-disease, non-supernatural Extraordinary ability.

Try to stop that.

Or describe it as it happens.

Also of note, they are not aberrations, they are magical beasts.

"An aberration has a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three."

"Magical beasts are similar to animals but can have Intelligence scores higher than 2. Magical beasts usually have supernatural or extraordinary abilities, but sometimes are merely bizarre in appearance or habits."

 

[Jhaelen]

Also, without such information, PCs cannot know that the said monster is something too strong for them. So, when a party member suddenly captured by a monster, DMs can't expect players to start negotiation instead of fighting.

Well, several things:
- It's true that it is sometimes difficult to realize that an enemy is really too strong to be fought until it's too late. One of my encounters involved 8 mummies that almost turned into a tpk because the party noticed too late how dangerous they were. 4E is definitely more 'retreat-friendly'.
- One good way to measure a creature's power without metagaming is to use knowledge skill checks - IMC, knowledge skills are _very_ popular.
- It's often better to err on the side of caution, e.g. when the party was ambushed by a couple of green dragons they played it safe and payed the ransom rather than risk a fight with dubious outcome (even though the dragons had been perfectly beatable at the time).
- D&D has lots of weird-looking creatures that are intelligent and can be negotiated with. If a 'monster' doesn't immediately try to kill off the party chances are it's prepared to negotiate.

The third problem is language. Roper speaks Terran and Undercommon. It often happens that no-one in the party can speak those languages. Unless the party mage has a scroll of Comprehend Languages ready (unlikely), many parties cannot negotiate with it even if they want.

Well, it may be true that this is a problem in many campaigns but it's really campaign-specific. Unless a campaign focuses strongly on pure combat skills, useful utility spells like this should be a high priority.

Since my campaign is centered around psionics it's never been a problem and it doesn't take players long to realize what skills/spells are important in a given campaign.

 

[Shin Okada]

One good way to measure a creature's power without metagaming is to use knowledge skill checks - IMC, knowledge skills are _very_ popular.

True. But the module was for 3.0e and that edition of PHB had no rule for using knowledge skills to identify monsters.

- D&D has lots of weird-looking creatures that are intelligent and can be negotiated with. If a 'monster' doesn't immediately try to kill off the party chances are it's prepared to negotiate.

That encounter starts with a sudden attack from Roper. Then it pulls a PC and starts to EAT that PC. The module says at this moment PCs can start to negotiate with it instead of fleeing from it. But I think most players will not even imagine that they can. The critter is eating their comrade!

Well, it may be true that this is a problem in many campaigns but it's really campaign-specific. Unless a campaign focuses strongly on pure combat skills, useful utility spells like this should be a high priority.

I did not notice when I wrote the previous post. But while Comprehend Languages allow PCs to understand what the Roper says (if it does), the spell does not allow them to speak the same language. So they need Tongues spell, which is Brd 3, Clr 4, Sor/Wiz3. And the adventure is for 3rd-level party.

And while utility spells are useful, it needs much time and resources to acquire scrolls of all the useful spells. At 3rd-level, most adventuring party do not enjoy that luxury.

 

[Noumenon]

Also, Comprehend Languages requires that you touch the creature you're talking to, so it's useless for negotiating with hostile monsters. Considering languages only cost one skill point each I don't know why they made this spell so bad.

 

[Voadam]

Also, Comprehend Languages requires that you touch the creature you're talking to, so it's useless for negotiating with hostile monsters. Considering languages only cost one skill point each I don't know why they made this spell so bad.

Its an awesome spell . . . for reading ancient/foreign texts.

 

[ElectricDragon]

Speak Languages costs two skill points unless you are a bard.

Ciao
Dave

 

[Noumenon]

In the 3.5 SRD it sounds like just one point.

You can purchase Speak Language just like any other skill, but instead of buying a rank in it, you choose a new language that you can speak.

Edit: or is it cross-class? I've never been able to find that table of what's cross-class in the SRD.

 

[Shin Okada]

Edit: or is it cross-class? I've never been able to find that table of what's cross-class in the SRD.

It is cross-class skill for all the standard classes in PHB other than Bard.

You don't need to see the table. If some skill is not listed in that class's class skill entry, that is a cross-class skill.