[RPG Advocacy] Help Rate Game Difficulty

[Neonchameleon]

Ratings for Player and DM respectively:

Here are the RPGs we are listing:
Dungeons and Dragons (4th edition)

Assuming Essentials, 7/6 - I'm using this as my baseline.

Pathfinder

6/8

World of Darkness (nWoD)

5/7

Doctor Who: Adventures in Time and Space

4/4

Savage Worlds

Hard to rate - not a good introduction but simple if you are familiar with RPGs.

Gamma World (4e-based)

6/5 (i.e. one step lower than 4e).

Leverage

3/4

Traveller (Mongoose edition)

7/8

Mutants and Masterminds (3rd edition)

8/8? Possibly higher? And I was highly unimpressed by the number of details needed for a supers game.

Also I'd add recommendations for the shelves for some of the Fighting Fantasy line and Dread.

 

[Wik]

First off, you need to add a ratings to your scale. What is a 1? What is a 10? I know it may seem obvious, but I think a lot of people have different ideas on what those numbers mean. I'm going with 10 as "practically impossible" with a "1" as "anyone can learn it by reading the book" scale. Anyways.

Of the games I've played:

Dungeons and Dragons (4th edition) 5/10 (essentials is easier)
Pathfinder 6/10
Savage Worlds 4/10
Gamma World (4e-based) 4/10
Shadowrun (4th edition) 9/10
Earthdawn (3rd edition) 6/10

 

[howandwhy99]

1 as lowest, 10 as highest. First # is as player, second /# as GM

I used a number range for games that progressively become more difficult. For example, I take OD&D to be 1 to start 10 at 10th level for a player and a chosen 3+ for the DM at start up unto 10 for high level campaigns.

Dungeons and Dragons (4th edition) = 3-5 / 4-6
Pathfinder = 5-7 / 6-10
Exalted (2nd edition) = 5 / 7
Savage Worlds = 1 / 3
Castles and Crusades = 2-4 / 5-7
Mutants and Masterminds (3rd edition) 5-7 / 6-10

 

[amerigoV]

I have to take exception with those listing Savage Worlds as a fairly easy game. It is, but not in the context BluSponge is talking about (presenting to the general non-gamer). SW assumes a pretty solid base of RPG knowledge by the players and GM (especially), which is how it gets away with making a mechanically streamlined, fairly easy, but complete system. It's a system designed for gamers. Now, I could well be wrong about the player side. I haven't introduced a complete RPG novice to the game using SW yet. So others might well say its an easy entry, but I don't imagine a genre-generic, rules light but tactically rich system that leaves so much up to the GM would be a good starting place for a novice GM.

I'd say 5/8, maybe. Stormonu's 3/3 is about right for experienced gamers though, IMO.

In our group, one of the couple's son (about 12 I think) joined us a couple of months ago. Smart kid, picked up the rules right away (he knows the rules much better than his parents, but his parents were always the "show and toss dice types" anyway). He quickly got the GMing bug and has run Savage Worlds for his family (2 younger siblings and parents) and roped his friends into it. He has not run anything with the main group (us old farts), so I am unsure his ability to "run the game" from just what he has seen with us and reading from the core Savage World book.

I suspect picking it up is much like learing D&D basic/1e. There is enough there to get you going, but there certainly are no training wheels. That's one data point, but I suspect that Savage Worlds can support the zany, over the top, monte haul style of game that young players tend to find themselves without much effort. For example, he mentioning in one of his games about them building a time machine to bring back a Ferrari, mounting some machine guns on it, and driving it through the dungeon. Sounds like a bunch of 12 year olds to me!

 

[BluSponge]

Hey everyone,

I wanted to thank everyone who participated in this survey. The presentation went on swimmingly and, I hope, got a lot of librarians thinking about how they might incorporate RPGs into their youth programs. Funny thing, I ended up talking the most about two games that aren't even on the list (and I know very little about): A Faery's Tale and Fiasco. Lots of elementary librarians were interested, and others were looking for a game that would work well for one-shots and re-playability. We ran a demo using a very stripped down version of the Savage Worlds rules that was very well received. I'm in the process of getting all the materials up on our blog site. If anyone is interested in seeing the final version of the RPG Difficulty survey, just stop by here.

Tom

 

[BluSponge]

I have to take exception with those listing Savage Worlds as a fairly easy game. It is, but not in the context BluSponge is talking about (presenting to the general non-gamer). SW assumes a pretty solid base of RPG knowledge by the players and GM (especially), which is how it gets away with making a mechanically streamlined, fairly easy, but complete system. It's a system designed for gamers. Now, I could well be wrong about the player side. I haven't introduced a complete RPG novice to the game using SW yet. So others might well say its an easy entry, but I don't imagine a genre-generic, rules light but tactically rich system that leaves so much up to the GM would be a good starting place for a novice GM.

As the OP, and someone who uses Savage Worlds as the basis for my library game, I gotta agree with Thasmodius here. The game is great for new players, but it certainly isn't written for them, or for new GMs. Of course, for the exception that proves the rule, at least one of the players in the program was introduced to RPGs with SW, bought the rules and started his own game. So it isn't like it can't be done. I think SW is probably less intimidating than, say, DnD4, though that game may be easier for new GMs to use (160 pages vs. 500+ pages of rules and advice). But I would never try to sell SW as an intro game, certainly not in the same way DnD red box, Dragon Age, or Doctor Who are intended to be.

I believe the final consensus of the survey set SW's difficulty at about 4, which seemed about right to me.

Tom

 

[nedjer]

Sounds like a great intro with hands-on to show the now players, the ropes. Hardly matters which rules were used when they've been streamlined.

Wish those dudes luck trying to introduce games in elementary libraries. It can be done, but the admins are rarely keen. Can librarians file their teeth?