[RPG Advocacy] Help Rate Game Difficulty

[Gilladian]

What session are you presenting at? I'll most likely be in the audience, and happy to ask any questions you want thrown at you!!! Oh, wait, you said Tuesday - preconference. Darn, I won't be there.

RPGs in the library are loads of fun - personally I used Microlite20 for the sessions I ran, but I'm an experienced DM. I don't know enough about most of the games you listed to rate them, but I think you're right to stick to games that are readily available.

Nedjer - libraries will be replaced by download points when download points can explain to a 12 year old what a primary source is, when they can handhold a 50 year old filling out a job application online for the very first time, and walk an 87 year old through installing Overdrive Media Console on the Nook her kids sent her from Idaho with "Here, Mom, you'll love it!" as their only instruction.

 

[chaochou]

Only played 3 on the list, but here's a difficulty rating, based on me imagining a total newcomer to RPGs sitting down as a player in that game with a relatively experienced GM.

D&D 4e: 3
World of Darkness: 6
Dresden Files: 4-8

I've rated D&D as easy, because you gets given a bunch of cards with mechanics and flavor text, to show what it does. That's quite empowering, given the most common question a new player asks is 'What can I do?'. You can do stuff straight away, and any sort of boardgame experience can be transfered into 4e combat.

I don't think WoD is difficult mechanically, but is setting oriented, possibly with lots of clans and groups, jargon and background to get your head round before things start to make much sense.

I absolutely love the FATE system of Dresden Files. Some players get it, others can struggle. The fate poiint economy in Dresden balances in-game power against meta-game power, and I think that's quite a leap to get your head round. Aspects take care to write well but are absolutely central to the game. However, the fact that everyone is involved in the setting and NPC design before creating a character is a very inclusive thing. Hence why I found it so hard to rate.

 

[Guest 85555]

Hey everyone,

Next week I'm helping to give a presentation on tabletop roleplaying in the library at the Texas Library Association Convention in Austin. As part of the presentation, we would like to post sort of a quick and dirty guide to RPGs for librarians. It isn't meant to be in-depth or comprehensive (not by a long shot!). It simply lists a selection of commercially available rpgs, followed by the publisher (with website), the genre, the core books required, and available support products categories (accessories, sourcebooks, adventures, fiction, computer games, etc.).

One thing we'd like to offer is a difficulty rating: on a scale of 1 to 10, how difficult is it to learn and play the core rules. And this is where I need help. See, this sort of rating system is subjective at best. I'm sure there are some MENSA guy online here who found HERO to be a snap, but struggles with Barbarians of Lemuria. So what I'd like to do is post the list of RPGs we are including and have anyone who cares to rate their difficulty as he or she sees them.

This is meant to be an aid for librarians introducing RPG programs for kids and/or adults, often taking on the reins themselves with no prior experience. Please try to be objective. The idea is to rate each RPG, on a 1 to 10 scale, on how difficult the rules are to learn and play. Please try to judge each RPG individually. Don't feel the need to rate any RPG you are not familiar with. In the end, we'll average the ratings and that's how we'll present them. And please, don't suggest additional RPGs to add. We're down to the wire on this one as is and adding new games just isn't in the cards at this stage. The point isn't to be comprehensive, the point is to be a useful starting point.

Here are the RPGs we are listing:
Dungeons and Dragons (4th edition)
Pathfinder
World of Darkness (nWoD)
Dragon Age (Green Ronin)
Doctor Who: Adventures in Time and Space
Exalted (2nd edition)
Savage Worlds
Gamma World (4e-based)
The Dresden Files
Castles and Crusades
Smallville
Leverage
Supernatural
Shadowrun (4th edition)
Shattered Empires (Paradigm Concepts)
Witch Hunter: The Invisible World
Traveller (Mongoose edition)
Earthdawn (3rd edition)
Hollow Earth Expedition
Mutants and Masterminds (3rd edition)

Thank you very much for your help!

Tom

I'd be hard pressed to fix a number on many of those. But I definitely see a game like savage worlds being on the easy end (2-3?), pathfinder being on the medium to hard end (6-8?). WOD, depending on edition, being somewhere in the middle (4-5?). However I think difficulty is a tricky thing. Much of it boils down to the individual. Many people find 4E easy compared to previous editions, but I have found it one of the most difficult versions to play. It may be worth mentioning something like this to your audience. You alluded to this in your OP and I think that is spot on.

That said a 1-10 scale seems a good way to cut it up. And I believe your list is appropriate, as it includes many of the top games. I would suggest adding GURPS and Call of Cthulu though (as those still get a lot of play).

 

[Stormonu]

These are my ratings for the games I've tried (Learn/Play)
5/7 Dungeons and Dragons (4th edition)
7/5 Pathfinder
4/4 World of Darkness (nWoD)
Dragon Age (Green Ronin)
Exalted (2nd edition)
3/3 Savage Worlds
5/4 Castles and Crusades
7/6 Shadowrun (4th edition)

 

[Thasmodious]

I have to take exception with those listing Savage Worlds as a fairly easy game. It is, but not in the context BluSponge is talking about (presenting to the general non-gamer). SW assumes a pretty solid base of RPG knowledge by the players and GM (especially), which is how it gets away with making a mechanically streamlined, fairly easy, but complete system. It's a system designed for gamers. Now, I could well be wrong about the player side. I haven't introduced a complete RPG novice to the game using SW yet. So others might well say its an easy entry, but I don't imagine a genre-generic, rules light but tactically rich system that leaves so much up to the GM would be a good starting place for a novice GM.

I'd say 5/8, maybe. Stormonu's 3/3 is about right for experienced gamers though, IMO.

 

[Mark CMG]

It's a shame you cannot offer some newer alternatives for introducing young players to RPGing like -

Well-supported with sequels - Squirrel Attack! from HinterWelt Enterprises

For the holiday - The Secret Lives of Gingerbread Men by Annie Rush

Free - Tales from the Wood - 1KM1KT

They are simple, fastpaced and fairly family-friendly (I say fairly because double entendres tend to be prevalent in RPGing environments).

 

[BluSponge]

I'd be hard pressed to fix a number on many of those. But I definitely see a game like savage worlds being on the easy end (2-3?), pathfinder being on the medium to hard end (6-8?). WOD, depending on edition, being somewhere in the middle (4-5?). However I think difficulty is a tricky thing. Much of it boils down to the individual. Many people find 4E easy compared to previous editions, but I have found it one of the most difficult versions to play. It may be worth mentioning something like this to your audience. You alluded to this in your OP and I think that is spot on.

Right. Far to subjective a thing for me to do it myself. Which is why I've turned to my peers for help.

That said a 1-10 scale seems a good way to cut it up. And I believe your list is appropriate, as it includes many of the top games. I would suggest adding GURPS and Call of Cthulu though (as those still get a lot of play).

Actually, I kept GURPS off because its a toolkit game that is largely lacking in adventure support. Call of Cthulhu I left off because that sort of horror would be a very tough sell in a library setting. Not impossible, just very very tough. You'd get better mileage out of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or Pulp Cthulhu if that ever made it out of development hell. nWoD is in there mainly because I know with the popularity of Twilight, having a RPG that does Vampires and Werewolves out of the gate would be an attractive option to many. It's the same reason I included all of the in-print Margaret Weis games (Smallville, Supernatural, Leverage) and The Dresden Files.

Tom

 

[nedjer]

What I, generally supportively, haven't underscored is that you're out and about advocating the hobby, so applause are in order even before you even step on the podium.

I'd also have to accept, after a look at the games I've played more than once over the last couple of years or so, that I'm surprised how far I've strayed from the Top 10 commercial RPGs. They're all, I guess deliberately, inclusive, innovative (in more than an OMG Dragon Age has stunt points and a wooky die kind of way), inexpensive and good to go in 10-20.

They also split into 'show games' at 1-4:

Buffy
Mouse Guard
Risus
The Secret Lives of Gingerbread Men (Christmas only)
Warrior Cats Sabretooth Hack
Witch Girls

and 'campaign design games' at 2 to as far you want to go:

BECMI D&D
Traveller
Treasure

I cannot, therefore, claim to offer mainstream opinion

 

[Vicar In A Tutu]

Here are the RPGs we are listing:
Dungeons and Dragons (4th edition)
Pathfinder
World of Darkness (nWoD)
Dragon Age (Green Ronin)
Doctor Who: Adventures in Time and Space
Exalted (2nd edition)
Savage Worlds
Gamma World (4e-based)
The Dresden Files
Castles and Crusades
Smallville
Leverage
Supernatural
Shadowrun (4th edition)
Shattered Empires (Paradigm Concepts)
Witch Hunter: The Invisible World
Traveller (Mongoose edition)
Earthdawn (3rd edition)
Hollow Earth Expedition
Mutants and Masterminds (3rd edition)

Thank you very much for your help!

Tom

I've only played 4 of these games, so I'll limit my ratings to these four (player / DM).

D&D 4th: 6/6
Pathfinder: 6/8
Savage Worlds: 3/4
Castles & Crusades: 4/4

 

[scourger]

Here are my ratings from games I know:

7-Dungeons and Dragons (4th edition)
3-Savage Worlds
2-Gamma World (4e-based)
7-Traveller (Mongoose edition)
7-Hollow Earth Expedition
7-Mutants and Masterminds (3rd edition)

D&D 4e is not a simple game, which is why I gave it a 7. It was accessible to me as a long-time player (31-years), but it has more complexity than I want to take on.

Savage Worlds gets a 3 because it is a very easy game to play or run.

Gamma World gets a 2 because everything you need is in the box. Mechanically, it is on par with Savage Worlds, but it really is presented for a very easy implementation.

All the late 7s are from games that should be simpler than 4e, but I just didn't "grok" them.