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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RandomUsernamehmimo71" data-source="post: 2176034" data-attributes="member: 9051">I'm sorry, that was a remnant from a part of my post that I cut out, to make the main body more readable and on-topic..I thought it was getting too specific to several campaigns and people I know.I cut it, but I missed a few lines that referred to a no-longer existing argument <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I found that many people in 2nd edition games saw the system as bad, and Knew it was bad.. The rules were a mess in some areas, so people were forced to ignore the majority of them. They focused on the story, because that was what mattered.When they came to 3rd edition, and they the rules actually worked better, if they payed attention to them, the players felt like deviance from them was less good. These 3rd ed. rules actually did a decent job, so the story should run using these."The story should constrain to these", I think is the key phrase. Sure, as I mentioned, every game will have both elements.. But when I feel you've gone from one to the other is when the story of your game is altered to fit into a rulesystem. You decide "I can't have my Fighter have XYZ because he wouldn't have enough feats or diplomacy to keep that many followers, etc.."Players try to think of fun ways to build a story that exist within the Rules- "Hrmm.. I wonder what a Level 15 fighter, with the PRC blah would be like".I will leave one final comment, WRT S'mon's comment of railroading- Storytelling is important, but not the GM telling a story. What matters to me in my stories is having the GM and the players work together to tell a story, often in places the GM had never thought to go, and never intended to pursue. It's the collaborative process that we share.</blockquote>

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