RPGs: Win, Lose, or Draw?

[BiggusGeekus]

From another thread:

I've read a WHOLE lot of "What is an RPG" blurbs in my time, and I can't think of one that says "RPGs are a game with a winner and a loser." In fact, I can't think of one that *didn't* say "RPGs aren't a game with a winner and a loser." So when I hear "Midnight can't be beat" it makes me wonder if the person's talking about a computer game or something.

Some of you already know my feelings on this. I respectfully disagree with d20 Dwarf (though I loved Midnight and look forward to picking up the second edition). However, I'm interested in your thoughts. Should game worlds be designed with an end in sight?

A poll on this will be up soon. Get ready to click!

 

[jodyjohnson]

To quote Marlon Brando: SELMAAAA!!!

 

[Jdvn1]

At long as the intent is to have fun, everyone wins.

Now sit back, pop open some drinks, down some of the food, and let the dice roll.

 

[MadMaxim]

Well, I'd say that PCs can win encounters, beat BBEGs and save the world and thereby "win", but I'd say the DM "wins" as well by getting a chance to tell a story that the players get to interact with. He's supposed to lose the encounters so that the players can save the day. I think everybody wins in one way or another. Did all that make sense...?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

None of the above. Seriously.

The Auld Grump

 

[Jdvn1]

What would it be, then?

 

[Psion]

Depends on the setting, really.

You are not going to go on a cosmic quest to take out Dulinor and Lucan in my T20 game, sorry.

But if I were making a game with an Izrador... yeah, I'd make you able to stave him off or give the people hope of something. And I don't just say that because I post at Nothingland. (VERY inside reference. )

 

[coyote6]

That pretty much sums it up for me. So, what Psion said.

(I voted Salma, though.)

 

[Tinner]

I voted for the suffering.
Let's face it. Which do you remember more, the time you whacked every monster with ease and strolled out of the dungeon with all the loot? Or the time nearly the whole party was wiped out, and only a single PC managed to escape by using all his resources and wits?
For me, the suffering makes it all the more memorable.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

RPGs for the players are about defeating challenge, so while there is a 'winner' in that sense there is no loser.

RPGs for the DMs are about presenting well rounded scenarios and challenges, making a world come alive, and telling a grand tale with the aid of the players - so while there is a 'winner' there is again no loser

But the players and DM are winning at very different things. In a weird sort of way they are playing two different games, with the same rules but separate goals.

The reason I did not answer before is that I wanted to take time to think it over. (And eat, let's not forget to eat...)

The Auld Grump