Ruined forever

[Hussar]

But not by the defenders of the Earth. Not by Unit or by any government body. They are defeated through knowledge only available to a time traveller. Had Jack not done what he did there would be no way to defeat the aliens.

 

[delericho]

But not by the defenders of the Earth. Not by Unit or by any government body.

Jack is a defender of the Earth, and Torchwood is a government body.

In any case, so what? With the resources available, it was possible for Earth to defeat the alien threat. In fact, it turns out defeating the alien threat was easy - it took them about a day, if even that, to figure it all out and get the necessary mechanisms in place.

 

[billd91]

Jack is a defender of the Earth, and Torchwood is a government body.

In any case, so what? With the resources available, it was possible for Earth to defeat the alien threat. In fact, it turns out defeating the alien threat was easy - it took them about a day, if even that, to figure it all out and get the necessary mechanisms in place.

Jack is clearly an unusual individual. Pointing out he's a defender of Earth and that Torchwood is basically a QUANGO of sorts is kind of playing with the semantics of the situation. Yes, he technically is those things, but he's also not off this Earth or its technology. He brings an alien element of his own into the situation and thus is not your typical defender of the Earth or member of a government body - which, without his involvement and unique characteristics, would be unable to cope with the situation.

 

[delericho]

Jack is clearly an unusual individual. Pointing out he's a defender of Earth and that Torchwood is basically a QUANGO of sorts is kind of playing with the semantics of the situation.

No, they're simply facts. It's not right to say the aliens weren't defeated by "the defenders of Earth" because they were. It's not accurate to say it wasn't a government organisation because it was.

Yes, he technically is those things, but he's also not off this Earth or its technology. He brings an alien element of his own into the situation and thus is not your typical defender of the Earth or member of a government body - which, without his involvement and unique characteristics, would be unable to cope with the situation.

Again, so what? Using the resources available it was possible to defeat the alien threat. In fact, it was easy. The contention that "resistance is futile" is thus clearly wrong - they did resist and they did win.

 

[Hussar]

I would not call the events either easy nor a win.

But it does outline nicely the philosophical point of the show.

 

[sabrinathecat]

"Torchwood is the Adult 'Doctor Who'" had major problems as a concept.
At first, it was more like a teenager's Doctor Who--the only things adult about it were sex and swearing. And it wasn't happy adult sex. It was either voyeuristic or "Hah, I nailed you, didn't I." "No, I made You my trophy."
The writing of the characters was vastly inconsistent. There was no overall structure, so events that happened one way would be completely ignored the next time. Other bits just didn't mesh well from episode to episode. Doctor Who could get away with it because each story was in a different place and time. Torchwood was anchored in one fixed era, with a fixed world, and a fixed setting. The episodes Had to mesh together, but usually didn't.
It was some time before the show got down to sorting itself out. Sadly, in the end, it was starting to lose itself again, with no-consequences interactions.
In a way, The Sarah Jane Adventures made a more adult and functional setting, because they were more consistent.

Back to the original topic
Spider-Man: Maximum Clonage. This was a cross-over from about 1995 or 96 that was pointless, annoying, and pretty much burned out my waning interest in comic books. Nail in the coffin.

 

[delericho]

I would not call the events either easy nor a win.

It was 'easy' in that a handful of people, working unofficially, using Earth-level technology (and not the best of it) were able to put together a solution in a matter of days.

It was a 'win' in that they achieved their objective - the aliens were defeated. That 'win' was not without cost, certainly, but it certainly wasn't the suggested cost, that resistance meant the death of every child.

But it does outline nicely the philosophical point of the show.

I don't disagree. I only disagreed with the contention that resistance wasn't an option.

The thing is, I can understand that some people might conclude that it was impossible. But in the UK it's still not all that unusual in the UK to have grandparents who fought in WWII. Indeed, our current Queen was part of the war effort. And Winston Churchill is an almost religious figure to many over here: "We shall go on to the end, ... we shall fight on the beaches, ... we shall never surrender."

The nation that endured that would not so easily capitulate here. Hell, even if it really was a no-win situation, I wouldn't bet against us fighting on anyway. RTD just got it wrong.

(Which is a shame. RTD is very good when it comes to writing human-scale drama. But as soon as he moves to the bigger stage, he seems to fall flat. And he really does seem to have some blind spots, particularly around government, anti-Americanism, and in seeing our police and armed forces as faceless jackbooted thugs.)

"Torchwood is the Adult 'Doctor Who'" had major problems as a concept.

At first, it was more like a teenager's Doctor Who--the only things adult about it were sex and swearing.

I don't disagree with that. In general, I find that 'adult' generally just means "boobs & blood". (Or, since this is the BBC and they won't take the gloves off, the occasional hint that someone might have sex once in a while, and the occasional rude word.)

 

[lost and forgotten]

The remake of Battlestar Galactica. That, plus wrestling, put SyFy on my 'skip" channel list.

 

[sabrinathecat]

The remake of Battlestar Galactica. That, plus wrestling, put SyFy on my 'skip" channel list.

How about "SciFi Channel" changing to "SyFy Channel". That was pretty much a knell of doom for any future project. Yeah, let's rename our company in such a way as to show we're totally abandoning the company's fundamental market and premise.

 

[lost and forgotten]

How about "SciFi Channel" changing to "SyFy Channel". That was pretty much a knell of doom for any future project. Yeah, let's rename our company in such a way as to show we're totally abandoning the company's fundamental market and premise.

Yes, that also. But I didn't want to get too wordy. Plus, I figured that 'SyFy' dislike would be universal in this group.