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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lokiare" data-source="post: 6259976" data-attributes="member: 83996">So 6-8 attacks that deal 1d12+5 damage is equivalent to 8-42 attacks that deal 4d6 damage half on a save? I don't think so. Doesn't even come close. Look at your averages: 11.5 for the Fighter 8 times is 92. The caster gets 14 * 42 which is 588. Not to mention lost damage when you kill a weak creature which the caster still comes out far ahead.There is only one instance where a Fighter comes out ahead of a caster and that is when fighting a single high level creature meant to be an entire combat by itself. Even then the casters non-damaging spell will likely outstrip the Fighters attacks.I'm sorry, but unless the DM favors Fighters through house rules and 'auto sucesses' as per the rules then the Fighter will be inferior to the casters at just about any level beyond 5th. Even at lower levels the casters at-will spells combined with the few daily spells they get will outstrip the Fighter in every way.This is one of the main reasons I'm not a fan of 5E. It goes back to the earlier editions vancian paradigms without really fixing any of the problems.Except casters can insta kill dragons (see many spells from about 3rd level on) and don't need to worry about death at all (see the clone spell).My character in 2E/3E had the black blades of destruction spell memorized multiple times and the ability (through a feat or magic item, I can't remember) to dual wield spell weapons so he went around touch attacking creatures who then innstantly disintegrated, even if they made their save they took more damage than a Fighter with a vorpal weapon. He did this twice per round or 3x with haste on.So yeah, even if you were playing gear that happened to have a meat bag carrying it around, the casters were still one up if they wanted to be.We can do this all day, but the fact of the matter is casters out did non-casters every time before 4E. Sometimes this was mitigated by DM fiat favoring the non-caster classes or putting in challenges that casters couldn't overcome (like rooms with anti-magic shells and some other challenge) or by the caster player deciding to 'play nice' and allowing the non-caster to do their bit by leaving some creatures for the non-caster to take care of or by instead of instantly killing the creatures casting haste or strength on the non-caster.Now personally one of the main things that drew me to 4E was the fact that casters and non-casters were on equal footing.Also: Mearls is NOT putting in options for the rest of us. There aren't any options to allow non-casters to be on equal footing with casters.</blockquote>

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