D&D 5E Rule of Three: 7 Feb. 2014

tuxgeo

Adventurer
This week's Rule of Three is available.

1. Benchmarks for Fighters at each tier (5th & 11th levels).
2. Running a business in D&D Next.
3. Natural advancement of ability scores capped at score of 20; other kinds of advancement may exceed that cap.
 
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tuxgeo

Adventurer
Corrected. Thanks for the heads-up!

Edit: Kind of a bland Rule of Three, IMHO: not as divisive as last week's version.
 
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mlund

First Post
Well, to be dramatic about it, this Rule of Three looks like the kiss of death for my interest in 5th Edition. So Wizards get increasing reality-warping magics (the incidentally destroy the economies of the game system and game world relative to the PCs) and the Grogs get ... extra attacks ...

I think this is where I'm supposed to insert the slow clap sarcastically, right?

Seriously, though, drop the entire idea that PC casters are supposed to be able to cast nonsense like Wish spells, Overland Flight, True Resurrection, and massive Teleport effects just because they reach a certain level. Those kind of effects aren't renewable resources that make the relative economies the PCs deal in (both in terms of game mechanics and in-world mechanics) laughable. Those are quest-objective type plot-devices and one-shots.

It's definitely something I think 13th Age got done right and Next needs to take a page from if its at all serious about having a functional game into those tiers.
 

Argyle King

Legend
quick thoughts...


Answer 1: I am unconvinced that multiple attacks in 5th will work more thoroughly than they have in previous editions. However, I do believe it fits with the design vision of 5th and what the majority of people who answered the polls want. It's hard to completely gauge how things will work without seeing the finished product, but, while I suppose it's a success concerning whether the design vision was reached, I'm not fond of it personally.

Answer 2: Sounds ok I guess

Answer 3: Makes sense. Though, I do have some small concern that this will be the first of many steps to break open the original concept of "bounded accuracy."

overall: My opinion of 5th is largely unchanged. I may have a smidge more apathy.
 

GX.Sigma

Adventurer
In my D&DN experience so far, extra attacks are awesome. With those, action surge, and cleave, a fighter is basically a fireball on legs.
 


I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
mlund said:
So Wizards get increasing reality-warping magics (the incidentally destroy the economies of the game system and game world relative to the PCs) and the Grogs get ... extra attacks ...

This doesn't seem like a fair characterizaiton to me. First, we don't know what controls might be in place for high-level wizard spells like Wish. Second, the article mentions that high-level fighters should be able to stand toe-to-toe with a dragon and that they can shrug off death. Sounds like the fighters are going to be the people you want in a fight (go figure) -- that's how they reshape the world.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
1. Benchmarks for Fighters at each tier (5th & 11th levels).

It does look "meh" when presented like this... multiple attacks by themselves don't sound exciting. But it all remains to be seen what the Fighter can do with those attacks, depending on what feats/class features/subclass features she gets.

Clearly, if the published core books have only the options currently in the playtest packet, or only a little more, Fighters will suck big time due to lack of options. It won't be enough to say "supplements are coming".

OTOH, there is indeed a lot of room to make the Fighter rock, using additional options:

- maneuvers that only the Fighter can get, time to let go of the idea "if the Fighter can learn it, why can't the <insert class> learn it too?"; let's think of it with a real life analogy, "if a kung-fu black-belt can learn a somersault flying rotating kick of death, why can't I?" is answered "because if you haven't practiced kung-fu for 10 years first, you don't know all the basic skills required for the advanced feature"; therefore, stick some excellent stunt under Fighter's subclasses features

- there can be feats granting some supernatural powers, for those who like near-magic stunts, and Fighter gets more feats than anybody else

- emphasize that a Fighter is not only about attack but also about defense, and not just defense against weapon attacks! In the old editions, the Fighter was described as the only character who could single-handed a dungeon, go there alone and survive! How come we ended up that the CoD is? Boost Fighter's defenses to make it nearly unstoppable at 20th level... abilities to cheat death, shrug off spells ("Indomitable" is a truly simple but good example, but then how about a chance to break a spell duration shorter), increased perception, great initiative, better movement capabilities... some of these can be folded into subclasses, others can be standard for all Fighters

Spellcasters have already been toned down in 5e, so the

2. Running a business in D&D Next.

Don't know why this is a popular request... sounds like material for a secondary supplement to me. There isn't really room for much about this in core.

3. Natural advancement of ability scores capped at score of 20; other kinds of advancement may exceed that cap.

Sounds fine.

It's definitely something I think 13th Age got done right and Next needs to take a page from if its at all serious about having a functional game into those tiers.

Generally speaking, I think D&D should stick as much as possible to its tradition and make things work better within that tradition, rather than copying games which copied D&D. It might work, but if it strays too far from its roots, it ends up like previous edition.
 

Bluenose

Adventurer
This doesn't seem like a fair characterizaiton to me. First, we don't know what controls might be in place for high-level wizard spells like Wish. Second, the article mentions that high-level fighters should be able to stand toe-to-toe with a dragon and that they can shrug off death. Sounds like the fighters are going to be the people you want in a fight (go figure) -- that's how they reshape the world.

How nice for the Fighter. They're actually going to be capable in the one thing they do well. I'm fairly sure any Wizard who wants to be capable in a combat situation is going to have spells available that allow them to be; and I'm even more sure that thy'll also have the choice of whatever else they want to be capable at, and will be able to be capable at some tasks one day, different ones the next, and still others the day after that. I'm certain that's not going to be the case for the Fighter.
 

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