Rule-of-Three for May 23

[Incenjucar]

I think the trick with the fey is that, as you go up in tier, things need to become more abstract, delving deeper into the seasons and expressions of life.

 

[the Jester]

You want a believable, cool epic monster that's not immortal, undead, dragon or whatever? Something real world that the pcs can deal with for levels? How about something like this:

COHORT OF THE IMPERIAL ARMY --- Level 26 Soldier
Gargantuan natural humanoid (swarm)
HP 245; Bloodied 122 --- Initiative +15
AC 42; Fortitude 42; Reflex 39; Will 40 --- Perception +21
Speed 5
Resist half damage from ranged and melee attacks; Vulnerable 20 close and area attacks

TRAITS
Swarm Traits

STANDARD ACTIONS
(mbasic) Longsword (weapon) * At Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +31 vs. AC.
Hit: 4d8+16 damage and the target is marked until the end of the cohort's next turn.

(close) Formation Strike (weapon) * At Will
Attack: Close burst 1 (each enemy in burst); +31 vs. AC.
Hit: 3d8+12 damage and the target is marked until the end of the cohort's next turn.

(m) Coordinated Charge (weapon) * Encounter
Requirement: The cohort must charge. It makes this attack in place of a basic attack.
Attack: Melee 1 (each enemy in range); +32 vs. AC.
Hit: 6d8+15 damage and the target is pushed 2 squares and knocked prone.
Miss: Half damage and the target is pushed 1 square.
Effect: The cohort suffers a -2 penalty to AC and Reflex until the beginning of its next turn.

TRIGGERED ACTIONS
(m) Coordinated Defense (weapon) * At Will
Trigger: A marked enemy adjacent to the cohort makes an attack against it.
Attack (Immediate Reaction): Melee 1 (triggering creature); +32 vs. AC.
Hit: 2d8+12 damage and the target takes a -2 penalty to attacks until the end of the cohort's next turn.

(m) Strategic Advance * At Will 1/round
Trigger: A marked adjacent enemy willingly moves away from it.
Effect (Opportunity Action): The cohort moves 3. It must end this move closer to the triggering enemy than it started it.
---
Str 25 Dex 17 Wis 26
Con 29 Int 10 Cha 13
Alignment unaligned Languages Common
Equipment plate mail, heavy shield, bastard sword
A cohort represents a group of 20-30 soldiers in formation, acting as a unit.

Cause after all, shouldn't an epic level fighter be able to go toe-to-toe with an army once in a while? I think so.

You could even get sassy and use the modron mechanic of "kill it and make smaller versions", or switch to "bloody it and make smaller ones" (e.g. kill it and have a squad minion swarm still).

 

[Incenjucar]

A good point.

The Solo>Elite>Standard>Minion>Swarm thing isn't used nearly often enough.

 

[Destil]

Really need guidelines for
Solo->Elite->Standard->Minion->Solo swarm->Elite Swarm->Standard Swarm->Minion swarm

 

[Riastlin]

My three coppers:

As to question #1: I think this is actually a decent idea on their part. They are trying to make their printed products as versatile as possible, thereby making them appealing to as wide an audience as possible. While I like bards, sorcs and wizards enough to purchase an Arcane Power II, I'm not really all that big a fan of the primal classes for the most part and thus would be less inclined to buy Primal Power II, etc. By making their print products versatile, hopefully more people will purchase them (excluding the DM-targetted products of course).

As to #2: I agree that this is interesting. To a certain extent I think this falls within their versatility guidelines I mention above. While there are a lot of people (myself included) who are dying for more epic material, there are also a lot of people who could care less at this point. I do agree though that simply adding more epic monsters to the monster vaults would go a long way -- without the need for an epic only monster vault. As for training themselves, I'm thinking/hoping, that they are talking about training themselves on what epic tier should feel like. What is it that epic level heroes are needed for? What should they be doing? What are appropriate epic tier story lines?, etc. Considering that they have previously mentioned an epic-tier adventure arc coming out in Dungeon I think that this could be what they are talking about. There's obviously less financial risk with a DDi publication than a print publication. I think they will likely be wanting to wait and see what the feedback on the epic tier adventure arc is before they consider releasing an epic tier print adventure. Though honestly, I again agree with Aegeri that the main issue is monsters, then possibly followed closely with general epic tier story ideas. I don't think they need to publish in print format epic tier adventures and I'm still skeptical as to whether they actually need an epic tier box set per se as opposed to simply going with a DMG 3, and a Monster Vault that includes epic support but is not exclusively epic.

 

[Zaran]

My three coppers:

As to question #1: I think this is actually a decent idea on their part. They are trying to make their printed products as versatile as possible, thereby making them appealing to as wide an audience as possible. While I like bards, sorcs and wizards enough to purchase an Arcane Power II, I'm not really all that big a fan of the primal classes for the most part and thus would be less inclined to buy Primal Power II, etc. By making their print products versatile, hopefully more people will purchase them (excluding the DM-targetted products of course).

The problem is two of the classes you mentioned will not be supported in their printed books because they are not eClasses.

 

[Klaus]

Dragons? Primordials? Other Elementals? Or perhaps something new, like Swordwings?

You can finally take the fight to the Fomorians, battling back an unprecedented invasion against the capital of the eladrin, rescuing the Summer Queen and having her make peace with her wayward son, the Prince of Frost.

You can try and find the first of the shardmind, a Gargantuan gem dragon, and keep reality from collapsing due to the pressure of the Far Realm, as a new Living Gate is constructed.

 

[the Jester]

The problem is two of the classes you mentioned will not be supported in their printed books because they are not eClasses.

Wizards has stated that they're continuing to support the "classic" classes and builds, and I'll take them at their word unless enough time passes without anything.

Yes, the focus over the last several months has been largely about Essentials, but that doesn't mean that's all we're getting (or have gotten- as people seem to ignore, for instance, most powers for e-classes are fine and dandy for non-e-classes too).

 

[KidSnide]

Really need guidelines for
Solo->Elite->Standard->Minion->Solo swarm->Elite Swarm->Standard Swarm->Minion swarm

Yes. You want an example of an epic foe? Take almost any paragon (or high heroic) foe and turn it into a swarm.

-KS

 

[OnlineDM]

Well, since we're posting epic tier monsters here, I guess I might as well throw in this one that I put together last week in response to a rather odd thread in the Meta forum: The Epic Little Girl.