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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 5129122" data-attributes="member: 9789">Ok, I see it now.&nbsp; But that seems almost a bit of a stretch, tho.&nbsp; That section is talking about component traits.&nbsp; It's hard for me to see how that applies broadly to something different.I hear what you're saying about implement vs. weapon, and I agree with you:&nbsp; there is a separation of weapon powers and implement powers.&nbsp; I think this was done to prevent power abuse (blood claw staffs or something like that).&nbsp; The thing is, I am having a hard time seeing how that applies to this feat, because they feat is just asking &quot;do you have an implement in each hand?&quot;&nbsp; And when a staff with the Staff Fighting feat gains the off-hand property, even if you're saying that the off-hand property only applies to weapon powers, it still means that you are wielding an item with the off-hand property - which means it has two ends, and each one is its own thing.&nbsp; And while technically each &quot;end&quot; is a weapon, you're still not using a &quot;weapon power&quot; from each end - you're using each end as an implement.&nbsp; How is this different from &quot;a swordmage wielding a double sword&quot;?re:&nbsp; elecgraystoneI agree with your points, but before you get too far in using the character builder as a source, let me explain the bug.Create a wizard as instructed, and give him a +3 staff and Dual Impl. Spell. and Staff Fighting.&nbsp; Look at an at-will:&nbsp; he gets a +3 off-hand bonus to damage - check.&nbsp; Now remove the Staff Fighting feat.&nbsp; He still gets a +3 bonus to damage.&nbsp; Curiouser and curiouser.&nbsp; But maybe it's because he is using the staff 2-handed?&nbsp; But now, give him a +1 orb (or whatever) in his off-hand.&nbsp; This should change the off-hand damage to +1, right?&nbsp; But it remains +3.&nbsp; You can give him anything in his off-hand and he will stay with the same off-hand damage as the main hand's enhancement bonus - all he needs is the Dual Impl. Spell. feat.So yeah, it's bugged.&nbsp; And therefore inconclusive.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 5129122, member: 9789"] Ok, I see it now. But that seems almost a bit of a stretch, tho. That section is talking about component traits. It's hard for me to see how that applies broadly to something different. I hear what you're saying about implement vs. weapon, and I agree with you: there is a separation of weapon powers and implement powers. I think this was done to prevent power abuse (blood claw staffs or something like that). The thing is, I am having a hard time seeing how that applies to this feat, because they feat is just asking "do you have an implement in each hand?" And when a staff with the Staff Fighting feat gains the off-hand property, even if you're saying that the off-hand property only applies to weapon powers, it still means that you are wielding an item with the off-hand property - which means it has two ends, and each one is its own thing. And while technically each "end" is a weapon, you're still not using a "weapon power" from each end - you're using each end as an implement. How is this different from "a swordmage wielding a double sword"? re: elecgraystone I agree with your points, but before you get too far in using the character builder as a source, let me explain the bug. Create a wizard as instructed, and give him a +3 staff and Dual Impl. Spell. and Staff Fighting. Look at an at-will: he gets a +3 off-hand bonus to damage - check. Now remove the Staff Fighting feat. He still gets a +3 bonus to damage. Curiouser and curiouser. But maybe it's because he is using the staff 2-handed? But now, give him a +1 orb (or whatever) in his off-hand. This should change the off-hand damage to +1, right? But it remains +3. You can give him anything in his off-hand and he will stay with the same off-hand damage as the main hand's enhancement bonus - all he needs is the Dual Impl. Spell. feat. So yeah, it's bugged. And therefore inconclusive. [/QUOTE]

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