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<blockquote data-quote="stonegod" data-source="post: 5129359" data-attributes="member: 36973">And bards, swordmages, warlocks, and artificers. I actually have an artificer in LEB that has Staff Fighting.A staff is still a weapon (a quarterstaff) so they gain the defensive bonus from just holding it (it doesn't come to play into powers). The question is if being a double weapon means becoming a double implement. They reason swordmages benefit from DIS from a double sword is they they have blades as implements (the weapon is treated as an implement). The issue is not symmetric: Staffs are implements first, weapons second (as per my quote from PH3 209 in the PH3).I'm not sure what the question is: Monks use staff's as implements (as they use any weapon as an implement). If they took Staff Fighting, they'd get +1 to AC like everyone else (as it is still a weapon).Which is clarified deeper in PH3 (pg. 219). They point out that weapon-implements only count part of their properties when they play in the other's role as I've mentioned before.Staff Fighting turns a quaterstaff into a double weapon. Both sides are part of the staff weapon group but they are not both staff implements; the staff weapon group is not the same as the staff implement. This is why swordmages benefit from DIS: They treat items from the light blade and heavy blade weapon groups as implements (and each side of a double sword is treated as such).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="stonegod, post: 5129359, member: 36973"] And bards, swordmages, warlocks, and artificers. I actually have an artificer in LEB that has Staff Fighting.A staff is still a weapon (a quarterstaff) so they gain the defensive bonus from just holding it (it doesn't come to play into powers). The question is if being a double [b]weapon[/b] means becoming a double [i]implement[/i]. They reason swordmages benefit from DIS from a double sword is they they have blades as implements (the weapon is treated as an implement). The issue is not symmetric: Staffs are implements first, weapons second (as per my quote from PH3 209 in the PH3). I'm not sure what the question is: Monks use staff's as implements (as they use any weapon as an implement). If they took Staff Fighting, they'd get +1 to AC like everyone else (as it is still a weapon).Which is clarified deeper in PH3 (pg. 219). They point out that weapon-implements only count part of their properties when they play in the other's role as I've mentioned before. Staff Fighting turns a quaterstaff into a double weapon. Both sides are part of the staff [b]weapon group[/b] but they are not both staff implements; the staff weapon group is not the same as the staff implement. This is why swordmages benefit from DIS: They treat items from the light blade and heavy blade weapon groups as implements (and each side of a double sword is treated as such). [/QUOTE]

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