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<blockquote data-quote="stonegod" data-source="post: 5134281" data-attributes="member: 36973">As I pointed out earlier, Staff Fighting turns the staff into a double weapon of a staff weapon group at each end. However, weapon groups are not implements unless the class description says so. Swordmages get light &amp; heavy blade weapon groups (which is why DIS works for them), sorcerers get daggers (and just the weapon dagger, nothing else dagger-like unless it can be treated as a dagger), and wizards (for example) get the staff implement (not the weapon group). This is why (in addition to the other quotes I have made) DIS does not interact with Staff Fighting by RAW. While wielding a double weapon is like having a weapon in two hands, the weapons being wielded are not the original weapons (the line right after &quot;like having two weapons&quot; in the AV errata: &quot;In the table, the first line of the double weapon’s entry describes the end of the weapon wielded in your main hand&quot;.) The primary and secondary ends of a double axe benefit from axe feats because it is part of the axe weapon group. The secondary end of a quarterstaff with Staff Fighting is not a quarterstaff, its a weapon in the staff group with 1d8 damage and the off-hand property.Weapons and implements are not transparently equal, though you can gain many of the the benefits of one with the other as specified elsewhere when applicable. This is not one of those cases.I have not said it was cheesy nor an exploit.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="stonegod, post: 5134281, member: 36973"] As I pointed out earlier, Staff Fighting turns the staff into a double weapon of a staff weapon group at each end. However, weapon groups are not implements unless the class description says so. Swordmages get light & heavy blade weapon groups (which is why DIS works for them), sorcerers get daggers (and just the weapon dagger, nothing else dagger-like unless it can be treated as a dagger), and wizards (for example) get the staff [i]implement[/i] (not the weapon group). This is why (in addition to the other quotes I have made) DIS does not interact with Staff Fighting by RAW. While wielding a double weapon is like having a weapon in two hands, the weapons being wielded are not the original weapons (the line right after "like having two weapons" in the AV errata: "In the table, the first line of the double weapon’s entry describes the end of the weapon wielded in your main hand".) The primary and secondary ends of a double axe benefit from axe feats because it is part of the axe weapon group. The secondary end of a quarterstaff with Staff Fighting is not a quarterstaff, its a weapon in the staff group with 1d8 damage and the off-hand property. Weapons and implements are not transparently equal, though you can gain many of the the benefits of one with the other as specified elsewhere when applicable. This is not one of those cases. I have not said it was cheesy nor an exploit. [/QUOTE]

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