Rule "Yes"

[Mallus]

They are not synonmous. 'I swing my sword' is a proposition. It is an action that does not dictate an outcome.

Do you honestly think anyone in this thread was talking about, let alone advocating, players dictating outcomes?

 

[pemerton]

They are not synonmous. 'I swing my sword' is a proposition. It is an action that does not dictate an outcome. The player that states, "I swing my sword at my enemies" lacks narrative control beyond his own in game avatar.

'I carve my enemies with my sword' is an outcome and a game which permits or encourages this sort of language it is fundamentally different than a game that encourages the first in several ways.

<snip>

A game that lets players say, "I throw my enemy off the cliff" is very different than one that says, "I attempt to throw my enemy off the cliff". In the former, the enemy going off the cliff is always at least a possibility. In the latter, it might not be.

Put it this way - I play a lot of Rolemaster, which requires a spell casting roll for every spell, and my players never say "I attempt to cast a spell". If the dice come up failure, they then add something like "... or not - what does an 82 mean on the spell failure table?"

Likewise in D&D - a player who says "I carve it with my sword" is always, at every game table I'm familiar with, communicating the same thing as someone who says "I carve at it with my sword" or "I try to hit it with my sword." (I think the last alternative is less comon
than the first.)

Also, a more general point about natural language usage - it is very common for statements of outcome to be used to express intentions (see, for example, Michael Dummett's discussion of the truth and assertability conditions of future tense statements in his paper "Truth".

 

[pemerton]

Do you honestly think anyone in this thread was talking about, let alone advocating, players dictating outcomes?

Well, some powers allow players to dictate outcomes. But I wasn't saying that players should dictate outcomes beyond the parameters that the game mechanics permit of them.

 

[Mark]

Well, some powers allow players to dictate outcomes. But I wasn't saying that players should dictate outcomes beyond the parameters that the game mechanics permit of them.

Your phrasing left a number of us believing that is what you meant and, in my case at least, believing you were discussing some alternate house rule version of the power you pointed out. I see now that was not the case nor the intention.


Anyway, in regard to Rule "Yes," I am aware that many of us over the years have had the "improv" attitude of going with the flow as much as possible while still facilitating a cohesive whole, whether that be in regard to the game world, the campaign, or simply an adventure setting, yet I am curious if there are examples in print of advice along those lines prior to thie latest edition. Can some of you think of any off the top of your heads?

 

[jensun]

Read Burning Wheel.

 

[Mark]

Read Burning Wheel.

Thanks but this thread is about D&D.

 

[jensun]

Thanks but this thread is about D&D.

Sorry, I thought you were looking for generic advice on these sorts of issues in other games. Rereading your post I suspect you are looking to see if it is addressed in previous editions.

My suggestion however still stands. A lot of this stuff is all about playstyle and approach and has very little to do with the mechanics of a particular game. If I was to cite the game which had the biggest influence on how I run games it would be Burning Wheel followed very closely by Spirit of the Century.

 

[Mark]

Sorry, I thought you were looking for generic advice on these sorts of issues in other games. Rereading your post I suspect you are looking to see if it is addressed in previous editions.

My suggestion however still stands. A lot of this stuff is all about playstyle and approach and has very little to do with the mechanics of a particular game. If I was to cite the game which had the biggest influence on how I run games it would be Burning Wheel followed very closely by Spirit of the Century.

This D&D thread is primarily about D&D playstyle and how it is related to D&D design and D&D writing over the D&D years in all current and former editions of D&D, i.e. what D&D playstyle is meant to be promoted by the D&D designers and D&D writers of D&D . . . and other games.

I appreciate the suggestions.



Vote Quimby & D&D