Rules for Immersion


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Pedantic

Legend
Never call for a decision I can make as a player but my character couldn't make as a person in a situation. All action declarations should exclusively affect future events.

Those two design points settled, you should then strive to ensure as little space exists as possible between the character and player's motivations, (I like the mechanic @kenada described above) thus that playing the game effectively will mean making the same decisions from both perspectives.
 
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RivetGeekWil

Lead developer Tribes in the Dark
I don't think mechanics or rules connect to "immersion". Immersion is highly individual, and it's not within the province of a game's rules to have any say in it.
 

Pedantic

Legend
I don't think mechanics or rules connect to "immersion". Immersion is highly individual, and it's not within the province of a game's rules to have any say in it.
You run into some trouble because immersion is poorly defined, and you will get people who have directly opposed preferences for what they'd consider "immersive," but I don't think you can remove the rules from the equation.

For example, I would say any decision I make as a player that my character can't make is necessarily less immersive. This means that a mechanic that say, lets me declare that there exists a helpful object in the nearby environment is harmful to my immersion. Having or not having a rule that enables that will absolutely affect me.
 

RivetGeekWil

Lead developer Tribes in the Dark
You run into some trouble because immersion is poorly defined, and you will get people who have directly opposed preferences for what they'd consider "immersive," but I don't think you can remove the rules from the equation.

For example, I would say any decision I make as a player that my character can't make is necessarily less immersive. This means that a mechanic that say, lets me declare that there exists a helpful object in the nearby environment is harmful to my immersion. Having or not having a rule that enables that will absolutely affect me.

Harmful to your immersion. Such a rule does nothing to mine and may even enhance someone else's since it allows them to realize the world fully. This is why I specified that immersion is highly individual. What breaks immersion for you mechanically does not have the same effect on me. That indicates to me that the rules aren't the factor in breaking immersion, but how the individual player approaches the rules. It's why I won't ever write a game to "preserve" immersion.
 
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Pedantic

Legend
Harmful to your immersion. Such a rule does nothing to mine and may even enhance someone else's since it allows them to realize the world fully. This is why I specified that immersion is highly individual. What breaks immersion for you mechanically does not have the same effect on me. That indicates to me that the rules aren't the factor in breaking immersion, but how the individual player approaches the rules. It's why I won't ever write a game to "preserve" immersion.

I agree with you on the individuality, but not that there isn't implication for rules design. There isn't a thing I can do as a player to correct for how the rules function in a system that's creating unimmersive outcomes. It would be better if we could point to someone more descriptive and further upstream that's more clearly defined and more amenable to different expressions of preference than "immersion" when taking about this.

There's no escaping though that different rules choices or design goals will produce different levels of immersion in a given player.
 

pemerton

Legend
Never call for a decision I can make as a player but my character couldn't make as a person in a situation. All action declarations should exclusively affect future events.
What about memory? This is a thing my character can do (unless they have amnesia) and it pertains to past events. Closely related to memory is emotion: feelings about people, places etc as a result of things that have happened in the past.

I ask this question not just to quibble, but because it seems to me that many RPGers seem happy to immerse in a way that to me feels like being amnesiac and emotionless. For me, unless I am actually playing an emotionless amnesiac,
 

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