Rules for making minions (a.k.a. turn any monster into a minion on the fly!)

[Asmor]

This is something I've been pondering for a while...

The lack of minion creation rules seemed very strange to me. I kitbashed my own for my programs (see sig) using average values for everything.

But something occurred to me. What if there are rules for making minions, right there in the DMG, they're just not explicitly spelled out.

What if a minion is just a normal monster with 1 hp who always rolls minimum damage?

I never really gave much serious thought about this, though, until the Fist of Mourning article in Dungeon, in which we see not just Minions, but Minion Brutes and Minion Soldiers.

A nice side effect to this is that it's a breeze to minionize any monster on the fly, even in the middle of combat (e.g. if you need to end a combat soon but can't just ignore the reinforcements for whatever reason). Just give them 1 HP and make them always roll minimum damage.

Obviously, there are some caveats to this. Certain monsters and powers wouldn't work well with minionizing (controllers, in particular, I'd pay careful attention to, and minionizing an elite or solo is right out).

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

The only difference between Minions and Standard Monsters is the hp and average their damage output. Keep all other abilities intact. However, I wouldn't recommend turning a Solo or Elite into a Minion.

 

[77IM]

I was thinking they would deal 1/2 the average damage.

In your analysis, is minimum damage closer to the minion numbers in the MM?

-- 77IM

 

[Paul Strack]

I was thinking they would deal 1/2 the average damage.

In your analysis, is minimum damage closer to the minion numbers in the MM?

-- 77IM

Minimum damage seems right to me. Remember, there are a lot more minions than regular monsters, so their damage output should be much lower.

I think the minions should also lose any encounter or recharge powers, and any powers that add extra damage for a CA or grant extra or temporary hit points. Finally, I think you ought to knock off -2 AC for non-Brute monsters when converting them to minions.

Lets do some quick comparisons:

Orc Drudge [Level 4 Minion]

• Medium natural humanoid [XP 44]
• HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
• AC 16; Fortitude 15, Reflex 12, Will 12
• Club: +9 vs. AC; 5 damage.

Minionized Orc Raider [Level 3 Minion]

• Medium natural humanoid [XP 38]
• HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion
• AC 15; Fortitude 15, Reflex 14, Will 12
• Greataxe: +8 vs. AC; 4 damage
• Handaxe: Ranged 5/10; +7 vs. AC; 4 damage
• Killer’s Eye: When making a ranged attack, the orc raider ignores cover and concealment (but not total concealment) if the target is within 5 squares of it.

Minionized Orc Berserker [Level 4 Brute]

• Medium natural humanoid [XP 44]
• HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
• AC 15; Fortitude 17, Reflex 13, Will 12
• Greataxe: +8 vs. AC; 6 damage.

Grimlock Minion [Level 14 Minion]

• Medium natural humanoid (blind) [XP 250]
• AC 24; Fortitude 24, Reflex 23, Will 23
• HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
• Greataxe: +17 vs. AC; 7 damage (9 damage against a bloodied target).

Minionized Grimlock Ambusher [Level 11 Minion]

• Medium natural humanoid (blind) [XP 150]
• HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
• AC 24; Fortitude 25, Reflex 23, Will 23
• Greataxe: +16 vs. AC; 6 damage.

Minionized Grimlock Berserker [Level 13 Minion]

• Medium natural humanoid (blind) [XP 200]
• HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion.
• AC 25; Fortitude 27, Reflex 22, Will 23
• Greataxe: +16 vs. AC; 7 damage.
• Power Attack: +14 vs. AC; 13 damage.
• Frenzied Attack: The grimlock berserker makes two greataxe attacks against a bloodied enemy.

Those number are reasonably close. It may need a bit more tweaking.

 

[Asmor]

I was thinking they would deal 1/2 the average damage.

In your analysis, is minimum damage closer to the minion numbers in the MM?

-- 77IM

Maybe, maybe not. Here's the thing: minion damage, unlike almost everything else about monsters in the Monster Manual, is pretty predictable. If you look at the section on making monsters, almost every minion does the minimum for normal at-will damage as appropriate to their level. IIRC, there's only one minion in the MM which doesn't follow this rule, and it's only off by 1 point.

The thing that throws a wrench in that, though, is that minions seem to be the only thing with any relation whatsoever to the rules in the DMG. Other monsters' damage is rarely near the suggested value, and unpredictably higher or lower than suggested.

 

[dammitbiscuit]

Which minion is the one that's one point off?

Personally, I've never seen a good reason for using an Orc Drudge (pg 203) where I can get away with a Hobgoblin Grunt (pg 138). The grunt costs me less encounter XP, and has higher initiative, defenses, and a great racial power. All this is at the cost of a lower attack bonus (that does the same damage!) I've never understood it, and took it to mean that minion stats were less orderly and mathful than other monsters.

 

[Asmor]

took it to mean that minion stats were less orderly and mathful than other monsters.

That's assuming the other monsters are orderly and mathful (they're not; the only thing predictable about most monsters is their HP, and even that has exceptions like the skull lord and creatures with insubstantial).

I don't remember which minion it was, but I think it was in the early to mid paragon tier. It was a long time ago that I actually looked at them all.

 

[the Jester]

Wow, that's a pretty quick and easy approach to minionizing. I like it a lot.

Thanks for posting!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think Minimizing Damage is the way to go. It seemed always to work. The harder part might be figuring out what one does with powers that inflict conditions and "utility" powers.

 

[dammitbiscuit]

they're not

Noooooo! You make me cry.
Does the errata fix that to any extent? I'm going to be DMing pretty seriously in the near future, and I was hoping I could trust that CR wasn't a joke/facade this time around.