Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Rules question - Knight of the sword Demoralizing Strike vs creature immune to frightened
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="DMZ2112" data-source="post: 8902750" data-attributes="member: 78752"><p>Clint's interpretation is reasonable, but the RAW does not define immunity to conditions as automatic success on saving throws, and the secondary effect is triggered by a saving throw, not by being unaffected by the condition. In my opinion, immunity can negate a saving throw, but it can't negate the chance of an <em>unrelated</em> secondary effect.</p><p></p><p>I agree with ECM03 that the secondary harm unrelated to the condition mandates the save. That's what makes the situation different than it was in the last thread, about the Courage Aura.</p><p></p><p>ECM's September thread about the fear-immune Warlock and Beguiling Twist is also relevant, because that is a situation where an ability grants a <em>benefit</em> to the target on a successful save that is not related to the condition.</p><p></p><p>If immune targets of conditions can benefit from a successful saving throw, they can also suffer from a successful saving throw, and vice versa. The dungeon master is empowered to decide whether this is consistently true or consistently false (or not consistent, but I wouldn't recommend that). </p><p></p><p>--</p><p></p><p>Now, all that said, my personal take as a dungeon master is that I wouldn't require a fear-immune target to save against Demoralizing Strike, and would negate all effects of the ability on the target. This is because the narrative intention of the ability on the whole as well as the disadvantage on a successful save is clearly that they are fear effects, <em>and therefore related</em>. <strong>But this is fiat.</strong></p><p></p><p>If 'demoralization' is not a fear effect, the first part of the ability should have been written out longhand without using the Frightened condition.</p><p></p><p>The secondary fear effect on a successful save granted by Beguiling Strike does not target the original immune target of the condition, so I'd let the immune creature make the save and the result would stand.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DMZ2112, post: 8902750, member: 78752"] Clint's interpretation is reasonable, but the RAW does not define immunity to conditions as automatic success on saving throws, and the secondary effect is triggered by a saving throw, not by being unaffected by the condition. In my opinion, immunity can negate a saving throw, but it can't negate the chance of an [I]unrelated[/I] secondary effect. I agree with ECM03 that the secondary harm unrelated to the condition mandates the save. That's what makes the situation different than it was in the last thread, about the Courage Aura. ECM's September thread about the fear-immune Warlock and Beguiling Twist is also relevant, because that is a situation where an ability grants a [I]benefit[/I] to the target on a successful save that is not related to the condition. If immune targets of conditions can benefit from a successful saving throw, they can also suffer from a successful saving throw, and vice versa. The dungeon master is empowered to decide whether this is consistently true or consistently false (or not consistent, but I wouldn't recommend that). -- Now, all that said, my personal take as a dungeon master is that I wouldn't require a fear-immune target to save against Demoralizing Strike, and would negate all effects of the ability on the target. This is because the narrative intention of the ability on the whole as well as the disadvantage on a successful save is clearly that they are fear effects, [I]and therefore related[/I]. [B]But this is fiat.[/B] If 'demoralization' is not a fear effect, the first part of the ability should have been written out longhand without using the Frightened condition. The secondary fear effect on a successful save granted by Beguiling Strike does not target the original immune target of the condition, so I'd let the immune creature make the save and the result would stand. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Rules question - Knight of the sword Demoralizing Strike vs creature immune to frightened
Top