Rules Question

[turtle]

2 Copper Belt zeros fight each other. The loser has two yen, which he wants to pay to prevent losing his rank, yet the other copper belt has the ability to demand one yen, which would kill or force the other copper belt down to white... which action happens first?

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

This is really for Wicht, I suppose, but I'll toss in my ¥: I'd say that the victor gets the spoils first. Then the defeated has to pay. In your example the defeated copper sash would have to go down - and expose him or herself to death at the will of the victor.

 

[graydoom]

Actually, the rules mention this situation. When a Sash loses to another Sash, the losing Sash owes one amount: the amount equal to whichever of them is at the highest tier.

So a Tier 5 Sash losing to a Tier 6 Sash would have to pay 6 yen. A Tier 2 Sash losing to a Tier 2 Sash would have to pay 2 yen. And so on.

From the rules
If two sashes of different tiers fight, use the higher tier to determine the amount owed.

 

[turtle]

what i'm asking is does a sash get to use yen to prevent losing a tier BEFORE he has to pay the loser fee to the other sash?

(wonder why I'm asking gray? )

 

[Wicht]

just when I thought I had thought of everything

I am not going to give my opinion just yet - I am interested in seeing what others think -

Should...
1) the money paid to the winning sash be sufficient to prevent the losing sash from falling?
-or-
2) should a second payment need to be made to prevent the loss of rank?

I actually know which way I lean but like I said I am interested in hearing other's thoughts.

I will check back in the morning and then give my opinion.

 

[turtle]

in my opinion, sashes should be able to pay to prevent loss BEFORE they have to pay out to the opposing sash... for example, if a tier one loses to a tier two they would normally pay 2 yen. if the tier 1 has 3 yen, they pay 2 to avoid loss and pay the remaining 1 to the other sash... that's how i think it should go...

otherwise sashes have very little insurance against losing tiers

 

[Jackal]

I would say you have to pay the winner before doing anything. So if the sash-loser after paying the sash-winner (as required)didn't have enough money to prevent a lose of rank he would have to lose it.

IMO I don't think it is fair to pay to prevent a lost of rank first and then not get the yen for being a sash winner of a fight because your opponent just used it to save his butt.

It basicly comes down to getting more money or an extra rank(if you kill the guy assuming Sash copper 0)

 

[Jackal]

It's true that "sashes have very little insurance against losing tiers" if they have no yen. But if they last long enough they shouldn't have any problems buying their way out of loseing ranks.

 

[Wicht]

Bumping so I can still find this in a bit

 

[Phoenix8008]

Wicht, I have another rules question. For a Dojo's record, does this count only fights since the Dojo was opened or just adding together the fighting records of the instructor and any students to see if it is a positive balance and therefore an honorable record? I believe that it only counts fights after the Dojo opens, but it doesn't say for sure in the rules.