Pathfinder 1E Rules Rules Rules! >:(

[was]

The Most Important Rule

The rules presented are here to help you breathe life into your characters and the world they explore. While they are designed to make your game easy and exciting, you might find that some of them do not suit the style of play that your gaming group enjoys. Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs. Most Game Masters have a number of “house rules” that they use in their games. The Game Master and players should always discuss any rules changes to make sure that everyone understands how the game will be played. Although the Game Master is the final arbiter of the rules, the Pathfinder RPG is a shared experience, and all of the players should contribute their thoughts when the rules are in doubt.

...Straight from the PHB...

I DM and play. When I play, I often offer help on rules implentation or calls to our current DM (who has less than 1 year of experience as a DM). However, once he makes his ruling that's it. I abide by it whether I agree with it or not. Attempting to get your own way by bickering, or using the rules in an attempt to undermine your DM, just sounds childish and selfish. IME, it also ruins the gaming experience for everyone else.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

I agree with statement 2 Mike. But number 1 is unenforceable. It can lead to wedgies if you are smaller than the other group members. Or you can't tell someone they can't access their own toys.

You most certainly can enforce it. Toys are not a fundamental human right, and if your group finds them disruptive, and many do, banning them at the table is a reasonable step to take.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

So you need to make an evaluation: if he stops arguing rules will he be fun to play with? If no, then uninvite him from the game. Otherwise, my rule as DM is that arguments take place after game time. I don't mind taking a minute to consider a player's point of view on the rules in game, but more than that is disruptive. It wastes everyone's time. Make a ruling and move on, and if you want to reconsider later you can always retcon if it's that important.

 

[jasper]

You most certainly can enforce it. Toys are not a fundamental human right, and if your group finds them disruptive, and many do, banning them at the table is a reasonable step to take.

You seem to have freak out over the word toys. Toys = gaming stuff= my own gaming books. To make clear YOU CAN NOT TELL NOT TO ACCESS MY GAMING STUFF.
how you going to enforce ML? tell me I can't open my copy of the monster manual? What are you going to give me wedgie? Tell your mom? Not play with me any more?

 

[S'mon]

You seem to have spaz out over the word toys. Toys = gaming stuff= my own gaming books. To make clear YOU CAN NOT TELL NOT TO ACCESS MY GAMING STUFF.
how you going to enforce ML? tell me I can't open my copy of the monster manual? What are you going to give me wedgie? Tell your mom? Not play with me any more?

Er, I think most GMs would kick out a player who insisted on referencing the Monster Manual during play. I certainly would. Your choice of language there may be a board violation BTW.

 

[N'raac]

You seem to have freak out over the word toys. Toys = gaming stuff= my own gaming books. To make clear YOU CAN NOT TELL NOT TO ACCESS MY GAMING STUFF.
how you going to enforce ML? tell me I can't open my copy of the monster manual? What are you going to give me wedgie? Tell your mom? Not play with me any more?

I think the last is most apropriate if a player refuses to abide by the group's social contract. I can certainly see where groups might wish to minimize distractions, as well as not allow access to reference material, especially reference material unrelated to the player's own character, during game play. Minimizing clutter on and around the game table, maintaining player focus, and other reasons may well motivate this.

 

[jasper]

I have done the latter, but pushes my buttons when a poster thinks they can just order a player not to something. But I have be in some toxic groups, so toxic it makes the KODT seem normal.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

You seem to have freak out over the word toys. Toys = gaming stuff= my own gaming books. To make clear YOU CAN NOT TELL NOT TO ACCESS MY GAMING STUFF.
how you going to enforce ML? tell me I can't open my copy of the monster manual? What are you going to give me wedgie? Tell your mom? Not play with me any more?

Each group has a "social agreement"...in laymans terms, it's how the group is a group and not just a bunch of random guys sitting around a table playing an RPG. So, if in the groups "agreement", it's uncouth for a player to reference "GM stuff" at the table, then yeah, someone doing that would get the cold shoulder.

My games are like that. We, as a group, like the distinct "red line" between what is Player info/books and what is GM info/books. I did have one player start to try to reference the MM during play multiple times (IIRC, it was my little brother...1e AD&D, back in the late 80's or early 90's I think). Anyway, after he wasn't getting the hint (re: "JJ, no. Don't look in the MM during game time"), I just started to make s#!t up for monsters, spells, etc. He got confused, then frustrated, then annoyed to no end, then gave up...realizing he was in a loosing battle.

Your buddy there doesn't seem to get the "role" of a GM. What I'd do...next game, have them fight at least two completely new monsters you made up yourself, toss in a magic item of your own devising, and maybe a spell and/or new feat. That'll throw him for a loop...and maybe, just *maybe* he'll clue in that the rules are actually "guidelines" that everyone uses to try and emulate heroic fantasy, not a straitjacket to emulate, well, rules stuff.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Greenfield]

You seem to have freak out over the word toys. Toys = gaming stuff= my own gaming books. To make clear YOU CAN NOT TELL NOT TO ACCESS MY GAMING STUFF.
how you going to enforce ML? tell me I can't open my copy of the monster manual? What are you going to give me wedgie? Tell your mom? Not play with me any more?

Give you a wedgie? No. I'll kill your character, on the spot, and make you start over.

And if, after doing that several times, you haven't gotten the message then I'll boot you from the game for cheating.

Yes, cheating.

There are rules for getting information about an opponent, skill checks you can make based on what your character knows or can figure out. If you try to bypass those rules by cracking a book open right in front of me (be it dead-tree or live-wire) you are cheating, and deserve to be treated like any other cheater.

Don't like it? Tough. If you can't play by the rules, you can't play, it's as simple as that.

 

[Warbringer]

To make clear YOU CAN NOT TELL NOT TO ACCESS MY GAMING STUFF.

how you going to enforce ML? Not play with me any more?

You bet your cotton socks that if you violate the agreed table rules of the game yo'll be asked to stop or asked to leave.

The DM is not just the "storyteller" and "presenter of squishy things" she is the referee of exceptable group behavior. Don't like that, go home and read your books alone, realise the game is more fun with others and come back and moderate your behavior.

Oh, and yeah I might just tell your mum