Ruleset as Lingua Franca - I wanna sell my 4E collection

[Mr. Greengoat]

So in the hopes of not getting this thread burned down I am making a personal statement in addition to posing an possibly inflammatory question.

I have a large collection of very nearly mint D&D 4E material that I have been accumulating. From the beginning I have appreciated some of the simplified design intent while being an apologist towards it's combat-centric board mechanics. I have always thought that the narrative RP style could be added in quite easily to go with the crunch. I have played it a little bit but nowhere near enough to justify my massive collection of books and WOTC paper.

With the talk of 4E design problems, the hopes for 5E, and the evidence of a pretty liquid ruleset that morphs as we speak on DDI, I find myself loosing any guarantee that the book I buy today and bought yesterday will have any worth tomorrow. As I get older with the games I play I begin to think of them as a Lingua Franca for fun at the table. An agreed on set of vocabulary and guides for use in communication between people who want to have fun. A common language between players must have stability, no?

It seems the quick turnover of rules combined with the crunch heavy material of the books makes the expiration date on the WOTC material very palpable indeed. So, should I ditch my collection on ebay before the price drops out and invest the value in a more stable ruleset? Something with a P and a F in it. Are these subscription and splat heavy games just for the young folk who like the new and shiny?

Side note: I play a lot, A LOT, of OD&D, AD&D 1st, and BXCMI with friends along with many new concept and old concepts games. And it seems that anyone with a serious gaming habit that likes variety does not have time to relearn or adapt to a morphing ruleset. The stability of a lot of the older games creaks once in a while, but the confidence in their mechanics makes the game flow easily.

Does the commercial business model of splat-books necessarily weaken a ruleset?

 

[innerdude]

Does the commercial business model of splat-books necessarily weaken a ruleset?

If by "weaken a ruleset" you mean, "Increases the level of commitment a player and/or GM must have to remain fully proficient with the rules, such that necessary adjudications become more frequent and apply in more side-cases, and character-building options become more proliferate, and thus require more decision-making points from players"--and all of that put together is a "bad thing" for you and your group--then yes, it must necessarily weaken a ruleset.

That said, it seems in your post you're conflating two separate issues: the ability of a digital medium to immediately update errata, and the resulting "fluidity" of the rules, and a general increase in available options. While there may be a connection between them, there isn't necessarily one there to start with.

 

[Mr. Greengoat]

If by "weaken a ruleset" you mean, "Increases the level of commitment a player and/or GM must have to remain fully proficient with the rules,

Yes I suppose I was revealing my bias against the play style who like to continually integrate product, buy material, and enjoy rule-reference one-upmanship.

Are there really a lot of those types of groups around though? And I don't mean char-opt or tactical groups. I mean the buyers and hunters for advantage through purchasing.

On your second point it seems that a lot of the errata updates revealed go far beyond a simple correction and into a restructuring and change in intent, so that several players with various errata updates and iterations would be playing different games.

 

[the Jester]

I miss just about every RPG product that I no longer have at least once in a while- even most of the real stinkers.

There are a few exceptions, but not 200 lbs worth, that's for sure.

 

[Kzach]

Although I agree about the worth of the books based on all the reasoning given, all of it is heavily dependant on one major factor: that you care about rules changes.

The fact is, all your books work perfectly fine as is and you don't NEED to use the rules updates or changes. So if you don't care, then your books are as valuable to you now as they were when you first bought them.

As for changing systems, I think that has nothing to do with rules changes. I simply don't enjoy using 3.x so I wouldn't play in a game using it. And it's not like they're not issuing errata either.

Then there's also the argument that rules changes and updates aren't necessarily a weakness. I view them as a strength of 4e. Then again, I don't invest in any other 4e (hard) material other than support or fluff products like the Neverwinter Campaign Setting book. Other than that, WotC only gets money from me through DDI. In that way, the rules changes are a benefit and not a drawback.

 

[Mr. Greengoat]

The fact is, all your books work perfectly fine as is and you don't NEED to use the rules updates or changes. So if you don't care, then your books are as valuable to you now as they were when you first bought them.

This is always a ligit argument when a rule is changed, but the whole impetus behind my question is based on the assumption (unstated, sorry) that I may want to play and share with people outside of any immediate circle.

It seems a more tame order to tell people that we will be playing PF or AD&D, than it would to tell them we are playing 4E. There is a closed set of parameters to play within PF and the other older systems while the edges of 4E and 5E seem like they are ever expanding.

It would be something if those parameters where story or narrative based (adventures, campaign materials) but it seems WOTC is fixated on mechanical expansion and a type of retooling that sometimes feels like planned obsolescence. If they wanting things to last longer, they would be slower and more considered in their implementation.

 

[Guest 85555]

I agree with the op. I prefer a stable core rules set (no more than than 3). Do not want to invest time and money on ever expanding, ever changing mechanics. Favor the release of modules, monster manuals, flavor books and GM guides to splat lines or multiple PHBs and DMGs.

 

[Randomthoughts]

With the talk of 4E design problems, the hopes for 5E, and the evidence of a pretty liquid ruleset that morphs as we speak on DDI, I find myself loosing any guarantee that the book I buy today and bought yesterday will have any worth tomorrow. As I get older with the games I play I begin to think of them as a Lingua Franca for fun at the table. An agreed on set of vocabulary and guides for use in communication between people who want to have fun. A common language between players must have stability, no?

It seems the quick turnover of rules combined with the crunch heavy material of the books makes the expiration date on the WOTC material very palpable indeed. So, should I ditch my collection on ebay before the price drops out and invest the value in a more stable ruleset? Something with a P and a F in it. Are these subscription and splat heavy games just for the young folk who like the new and shiny?

<snip>

Does the commercial business model of splat-books necessarily weaken a ruleset?

I'm not sure about something - are you looking at 4e as a true-blue investment (like a collector's item) or as rules to run a fantasy RPG?

For me, it's the latter. Specifically, I collect the books b/c 4e is my favorite D&D edition. So if/when 5e rolls around (and I'm sure it will, eventually), I will have the entire rule set. I can see myself playing 4e, off and on, with or without house rules, for many, many years to come.

As for errata, that's an interesting one. It certainly appears that there are a lot of changes. However, since I use DDI, the impact of errata is only evident when it impacts a current rule or chosen power. The practical effect IMC has been minimal (thankfully).

Finally, if you don't like a certain splat book, why buy it? I haven't found any to be absolutely necessary. As a GM for a campaign, I would simply limit the source books to the ones the group (especially you) feels comfortable with.

If your concern is that there is so many of them, I do agree - the volume of material could be quite daunting. But every gaming company will sell more and more splat books so long as the market supports them.

 

[Kzach]

It would be something if those parameters where story or narrative based (adventures, campaign materials) but it seems WOTC is fixated on mechanical expansion and a type of retooling that sometimes feels like planned obsolescence. If they wanting things to last longer, they would be slower and more considered in their implementation.

I can't believe I fell for a sock puppet. I must be getting old.

 

[Mr. Greengoat]

I can't believe I fell for a sock puppet. I must be getting old.

Hmm, what?
No, I am for reals.

Who do I sound like?
I earnestly have two crates of 4E books sitting in my apartment that I fret over actually ever playing. I always kept on telling myself that I would start to DM a short campaign soon, but it appears the horse that I put stock in is going sideways into another big splat explosion soon.

I like to horde my game books, but I don't think I put as much fun-stock into the 4E books as say, my stack of runequest, or spelljammer collection .
There is just too much tied into the mechanics that will get invalidated if 5E rolls in.