Mapache
Explorer
"It's a Diablo II Paladin who tastes like O∂in."
Runepriests
- Thread starter Klaus
- Start date
"It's a Diablo II Paladin who tastes like O∂in."
ppaladin123
Adventurer
While this is a hilarious post, I think it is a bit extreme; the rune priest has some decent options and a strong base. It really just needs more support in the way of (non-rune) feats, powers, and a few paragon paths. I am not particularly optimistic that it will receive that support though.
Merlin the Tuna
First Post
Do they? I feel like the defining visuals for the Avenger are that they're melee combatants without armor, and that they all wield anime-sized weapons. The first of those fits the concept perfectly, and the second one pretty much poops all over it.
As for the runepriest, I'm currently DMing one in a three-PC group running through a 4E version of the Red Hand of Doom. He's has definitely been pulling his weight in the party, and often seems to be the MVP, whether it's because of a clutch defensive buff that gives the PCs a chance to get back on their feet, a key offensive buff that just barely lets the ranger deal about 100 damage in a single round, or the occasional status effect (blind, immobilize, etc.) that neutralizes an enemy long enough to bring down another. My general impression has been that the Runepriest's flexibility helps tremendously in a small group, but doesn't necessarily scale well to being a primary healer in a 5-man party. Which is fine because I don't have one of those.
As for the "he should be a Cleric!" argument, there are few things I can dismiss more quickly -- because the D&D Cleric has always been stupid and should have been a Paladin to begin with, so sucks to his assmar.
I'd just like to see something, flavor-wise, that ties in to the larger cosmology in a distinictive way. That's one of my favorite things about 4th Edition --- each power source has its own flavor, and each relates to the larger cosmology.
So following up on the excellent suggestion that runepriests don't pray to gods, but emulate them . . . I'd shift the focus of the runepriest a bit to encompass truename magic, a la the 3.5 Tome of Magic. Learn the words --- spoken or written --- that the gods spoke when they brought order out of the elemental chaos, and on a very small scale, you ARE a god.
Now that is an awesome hook for a character class, although the "priest" part is maybe a misnomer for that concept. That's the only class that manipulates divine energy without the gods getting involved. Are you channeling the ambient energies of the Astral Seas? Stealing small amounts of power from the gods? Harnessing the divine spark within all living things?
WotC, why not give us an Essential Runepriest article along these lines? And that seems like maybe a Wis / Con kinda build --- like Odin, runepriests gain their powers by going through some terrible physical and psychological ordeal, resulting in an epiphany.
I guess the other problem here is that every picture looks like another damn dwarf cleric. I'm not sure this concept is best served by making plate mail and a hammer the default vibe.
So following up on the excellent suggestion that runepriests don't pray to gods, but emulate them . . . I'd shift the focus of the runepriest a bit to encompass truename magic, a la the 3.5 Tome of Magic. Learn the words --- spoken or written --- that the gods spoke when they brought order out of the elemental chaos, and on a very small scale, you ARE a god.
Now that is an awesome hook for a character class, although the "priest" part is maybe a misnomer for that concept. That's the only class that manipulates divine energy without the gods getting involved. Are you channeling the ambient energies of the Astral Seas? Stealing small amounts of power from the gods? Harnessing the divine spark within all living things?
WotC, why not give us an Essential Runepriest article along these lines? And that seems like maybe a Wis / Con kinda build --- like Odin, runepriests gain their powers by going through some terrible physical and psychological ordeal, resulting in an epiphany.
I guess the other problem here is that every picture looks like another damn dwarf cleric. I'm not sure this concept is best served by making plate mail and a hammer the default vibe.
I'll add another thought to that --- many, if not all, the D&D cultures could have their own take on this runic magic . . . what it means, where it comes from, what sort of vision quest is necessary, etc. Gnomes might see it as a matter of learning the answers to cosmic riddles (or the punchlines to cosmic jokes). Dwarves would stick most closely to the traditional concept of runes. Deva might gradually remember the language of the gods as they continue on their own quests for spiritual refinement.
Incenjucar
Legend
The important thing to keep in mind regarding the divine power source is that it should focus on astral-friendly concepts, since physical creation was done by the primordials and not the deities. One possibility is to make a build that reflects ideals, perhaps granting dailies like "Aspect of Tyranny" or "Aspect of Secrets" that reflect some of the powers associated with the deities who hold those portfolios. It could function something like the old Tenser's Transformation spell, in theme, but apply to allies.
I'm not sure why there is so much worry about fluff. I can make a world where arcane magic is just the gift of an arcane god, primal magic is just the gift of a primal god, etc. Suddenly all my classes are divine. I can also make a world where there are no gods, but all magic comes from a communal belief or cult system, or perhaps from powerful beings, maybe a grand druid supplies all the primal magic in an area, or various arcane and psionic powers come from a variety of greater demons. All fluff is refluffable.
I'm sure we can come up with a half dozen backgrounds for where rune magic might come from. It could belong to a sect of tarot fortune tellers who use cards with runes on them to create circles of runes around them that empower their weapons and their armor. Or perhaps a Runelord brands his followers with powerful runes to serve him, and to ensure their loyalty. Or a pantheon of gods have collectively blessed a few individuals upon birth and left their bodies covered in runes, knowing these individuals will serve them in a time of need. Those who are marked are trained in monasteries in the ways of a tradition, and live their days in seclusion until the gods call upon them. And there is nothing stopping you from having all of the above in the same world.
In D&D, people don't go to "Fighter School" to become a fighter. One may have lived on the fringes of civilization and learned his skills through trial in the wild, while another may have been educated by the best trainers his noble father could afford, and yet another may have learned to fight as a slave in an arena.
A class does not have to represent a single stereotype. I see it all as a collection of game mechanics. If I like the game mechanics, I like the class. I can always use some fresh ideas for inspiration so I do appreciate any attempt at fluff, but ultimately, I will wrap my awesome fluff around the mechanics as I see fit for any character I play to fit the world I'll be playing in (or any campaign world I make).
I'm sure we can come up with a half dozen backgrounds for where rune magic might come from. It could belong to a sect of tarot fortune tellers who use cards with runes on them to create circles of runes around them that empower their weapons and their armor. Or perhaps a Runelord brands his followers with powerful runes to serve him, and to ensure their loyalty. Or a pantheon of gods have collectively blessed a few individuals upon birth and left their bodies covered in runes, knowing these individuals will serve them in a time of need. Those who are marked are trained in monasteries in the ways of a tradition, and live their days in seclusion until the gods call upon them. And there is nothing stopping you from having all of the above in the same world.
In D&D, people don't go to "Fighter School" to become a fighter. One may have lived on the fringes of civilization and learned his skills through trial in the wild, while another may have been educated by the best trainers his noble father could afford, and yet another may have learned to fight as a slave in an arena.
A class does not have to represent a single stereotype. I see it all as a collection of game mechanics. If I like the game mechanics, I like the class. I can always use some fresh ideas for inspiration so I do appreciate any attempt at fluff, but ultimately, I will wrap my awesome fluff around the mechanics as I see fit for any character I play to fit the world I'll be playing in (or any campaign world I make).
Victim
First Post
Variable benefits to powers is a pretty neat hook for a class. And while the Runepriest specific feat support is rather lacking (I'm with the Rune feats suck crowd), RPs are a strength based, weapon using class. So they can pick up a lot of the general weapon stuff, and have the stats to pick up other good ones with a nice multiclass.
That being said, like the warlord, the Runepriest seems somewhat picky in terms overall party composition. A lot of their stuff requires adjacent allies, which really cramps the style of many classes - most buffs don't compare to the rogue getting sneak attack.
That being said, like the warlord, the Runepriest seems somewhat picky in terms overall party composition. A lot of their stuff requires adjacent allies, which really cramps the style of many classes - most buffs don't compare to the rogue getting sneak attack.
Incenjucar
Legend
Fluff matters to a lot of people, regardless of whether others agree with it, so it has to be taken into consideration regarding any conversation of directions that WotC should take something. That said, like the warlock, you can stretch a class very, very far while still being true to fluff. There could easily be a hundred different ways to become a rune priest without breaking the flavor of what they are and turning them into a purely mechanical consideration.
DracoSuave
First Post
Warlords have always had problems similiar to this.
Regardless... if you have a melee rogue, hopefully you have a defender (otherwise a rogue is a subpar choice) and that's enough of a melee line to justify the runepriest.
(Also, rogues should be a lot more self-sufficient in generating combat advantage. If you have a class that requires a certain situation to maximise effectiveness, and you have powers designed to make that situation happen, and keep it happening continuously, you should take those powers. I don't understand rogues who need everyone to do their job for them.)
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