D&D 4E Running 3.xE adventures using 4E rules

[CapnZapp]

Hi, could I ask for any pointers/links to insightful discussion regarding using 3.x adventures in 4E?

The adventures I have already (Vault of Larin Karr transposed into the Elsir Vale of Red Hand of Doom).

What I'm interested in is any gotchas regarding overpowered combos of Monster Manual monsters, 3E spells/effects that translate badly across, and any impact on storylines. Monsters that work completely and utterly different now. Or anything else you happen to know about.

That isn't to say I'm overly worried. What I've seen of 4E so far tells me much of the adventure-busting elements of 3E has been removed, reduced or relegated to epic-level play.

As the adventures I intend to run are low-level adventures (or "heroic tier" I guess), they should contain much fewer headaches to begin with.

And I'm not a newbie games master, although new to DMing 4E.

I should probably add I'm not planning to convert monsters on the fly. I do realize the benefits of building encounters beforehand, and I fully intend to interpret 3E monster selection freely (rather than seeking to select exact 4E matches)...

Any input (or again, links to previous discussion) would be appreciated.

 

[ValhallaGH]

The biggest thing I've come across with similar conversions is that it's often easier to build my own monsters rather than use the ones in the Monster Manual; the MM critters often have the wrong level, abilities, or whatever for what I want to do, or they simply don't exist (Barghest).

For that purpose, I found the following site invaluable: 4e Monster Math Cruncher - Asmor.com

 

[Mort_Q]

4e combat has a larger emphasis on movement, so you may want to tweak the maps (not that I have seen the maps for those modules).

 

[HarbingerX]

4e combat has a larger emphasis on movement, so you may want to tweak the maps (not that I have seen the maps for those modules).

When converting Keep on the Borderlands, the rule of thumb I've been using is to use the old 1st Ed. AD&D rule that one figure occupies 3.5 feet of space. So a 10' wide corridor becomes 3 squares wide.

Another good approach that has been suggested is to make the 'encounter area' larger and encompass several rooms.

 

[CapnZapp]

So, increasing the size of any encounter areas by 50% then?

(Except for exceptions, of course.)

I did find the RHOD thread on monster conversions, so that's great too.

Otherwise, nothing essential? I could just take a 3E encounter and make it into 4E without having to watch out for any hidden traps?

I already know I can increase the number of opponents in 4E, and that despite 4E monsters generally having more hit points. (In other words, the total amount of enemy hp can be much larger in 4E than in 3E)

Making sure there's enough space is a good idea (again, except when you want to bring across the idea the adventurer's are on enemy turf and would be disadvantaged in any straight-up combat, such as when the party ventures down side passages in Underdark).

More?

 

[ValhallaGH]

Avoid the trap of trying to directly convert things. It's a giant abyss and will really mess you up if you let it. Aim for the spirit of the adventure, keeping in mind the things you want and need to happen and letting the specifics fit the new mechanics.
That can include using minions where fitting. Just think it through when using them, basing their tactics on the combined factors of their intelligence scores, their boss's intelligence, the goals of the encounter, and the fact of their single hit point. Keep that stuff in mind and minions tend to work perfectly.

I'm not aware of any other general pitfalls, but I'm sure they exist and you'll find them the hard way. Stay flexible and rooted in what you want your game to be and things should go alright.

 

[Dragonbait]

Grapple was a huge thing in 3E. Some encounters were built around a monster being able to grapple PCs and lock them down for many rounds while another picks them off. I have not GMed 4E yet and have not run into a grappler as a player BUT I know that grapple is not as game breaking as it was. You might have to beef up encounters that relied heavily on a Large monster or larger to occupy the whole group.

Also, on the Red Hand of Doom (Spoiler tags added):

Spoiler

The first encounter area is a keep that supplies PCs with a rod of ressurection amongst other items provided they search for it. The gp value of the treasure was intentionally far greater than that which is supposed to be provided for a reason: there is little time to rest between encounters during the campaign. PCs do not need to rest as long as those of 3E (for instance, they are not so reliant on copying scrolls into a spellbook) and bringing characters back from the dead works differently. You might not need to provide them with such an item.

 

[timbannock]

Avoid the trap of trying to directly convert things. It's a giant abyss and will really mess you up if you let it. Aim for the spirit of the adventure, keeping in mind the things you want and need to happen and letting the specifics fit the new mechanics.
That can include using minions where fitting. Just think it through when using them, basing their tactics on the combined factors of their intelligence scores, their boss's intelligence, the goals of the encounter, and the fact of their single hit point. Keep that stuff in mind and minions tend to work perfectly.

I'm not aware of any other general pitfalls, but I'm sure they exist and you'll find them the hard way. Stay flexible and rooted in what you want your game to be and things should go alright.

Good advice indeed.

To put theory into practical info a little, when you do conversions, be aware that numbers of monsters and levels WILL change. Be prepared to throw in more monsters, but utilize minions (and encounters that absolutely have to be solo should be rebuilt so the enemy indeed is a solo, but of a level equal to the average party level or thereabouts).

That Red Hand of Doom thread for 4.0 is pretty clear about this stuff.