Running a business in the game

[Hawke]

My current campaign had the players given an option to have a "rum running" business. What sounded cool initially was quickly overtaken by a much better macro plot that left the rum runners to the background NPCs and the adventurers doing much greater and grander deeds. All for the better, of course, though if we wanted a session or two playing at it I woulda whipped up some rules.

If I had to, I'd just run it like a skill challenge. Solicit some ideas to increase profits, let them use some skills to see how it goes. Make some choices available (either spend your time doing X OR Y with two possible results) and setup some risks that could end up as some combat encounters with some enemies (either the law if running through town or some creatures if sneaking in the forest).

The problem is... a single extended skill challenge shouldn't generate that much money or you'll end up having that give the players tons of cash compared to adventurering. I'd suggest avoiding assigning monetary values to it and assume near 100% reinvestment into the business operation with the success of the skill challenge a more tangible goal:

-Gain entry into a local guild to gain access to NPCs
-Outcompete enemy evil business to save the town
-Uncover some artifact through trade/business integral to the plot
-Learn new plot hooks that sets off adventurering
-Use the profits to strengthen a local army or rebel group

Keep in mind with any skill challenge you'll want something for all characters to do... it isn't fun for the muscle of the group to sit back to a string of perception, insight, diplomacy and history rolls or whatever you pick.

 

[SlyFlourish]

Our current party of characters (I'm the DM) is running a business out of the duergar trading post in the Seven Pillared Hall in Thunderspire Labyrinth. It seems every person they save ends up working there.

At first I wasn't really prepared but now, as the adventures move on, I have to keep in mind what's going on. Lately its been a bit of an economic power struggle between Shieldbashers Meats and Metals (the PC's business) and Grendar's Curios and Relics (an NPC business run by a dark elf).

It's actually a lot of fun for both of us. It's sort of turning into Deadwood. People love it.

Right now the party is in the Pyramid of Shadows. I have an idea what's going on back in the business but it might be surprising even to me.

 

[Melba Toast]

There are a lot of clever ideas in this thread.

Minigiant... I'm curious, did you give much thought to "the bank" and how it would work within the game world?

Typically, in Medieval Europe, assets were held by the state or church, with the majority of people entrusting their small savings to the church. The roman catholic church was the largest bank in the world until the emergence of economic theory and the banking industry in the 1700's.

The other major asset holders were the mob, though they were the least trustworthy for obvious reasons. European Jews, having neither official state nor church recognition, started up their own banks, but those were arguably mob organizations. The jewish people's reluctance to invest their money in official state and church institutions was one of the reasons the Jewish people were subject to the hurtful and anti-semetic propaganda that still persists today.

My point is this: once a person has acquired a certain level of asset control, they should expect to attract the attentions of the existing banking authorities. Both the church and the state will start asking questions and demanding concessions. "The walls of our city protect your gold, therefore you should protect the walls of this city by giving us your money. Now pony up!" and "Why wouldn't you place your trust in the church? Don't you have faith in our god? Perhaps you worship other gods? Selfish gods? Evil gods?"

Overly wealthy PCs might just find themselves suddenly at odds with their sovereign nation, at the center of a war, or marginalized as troublemakers and infidels.

 

[justanobody]

Any PC run store is ran by NPCs....When a PC starts to take the time to mind his own store, he has retired from adventuring.

 

[joethelawyer]

my wizard is on the verge of setting up a canal business running from hommlett to verbobonc. there was a recent greater flow of water in the river, due to recent seismic activity (the obliteration of the temple of elemental evil both there and in the volcano from RTTTOEE.) the extra water made canal travel posssible, as long as someone is willing to clear out the shallow spots and make it navigable all the way thru. my wizard with e spells move earthth and dig, and a work crew should be able to clear it in a monh or two. with a license fee to the ruler of verbobonc, i should get an exclusive livense. after setup costs, i have an exclusive contract, which ought to generate me some income. enough for funding magical research, and to extend my base of networks and contacts through better funding, so as to be a better player in the regional politics. traditionally canals were the cheapest mode of transport, bar none. so i ought to make some decent money. if it wasn't for that massive uprising in the pomarj and the recent takeover of narwell and safeton by the orcs of the pomarj, i would be more comfortable with the investment...

any 3pp resources on trade and commerce in dnd?

 

[roguerouge]

The model for adventuring while running a business is perfectly comprehensible. It's the Deep Space Nine adventure model (the adventure and intrigue comes to us) rather than the Star Trek adventure model (we go to the adventure and deal with local intrigue). Not hard at all.

And, yes, the DMGII model looks impossible for all but 8-10th level characters. As soon as they introduced it, all of WotC's innkeepers in their adventures instantly became impoverished, because virtually none of them are of sufficient level to turn a profit. The random business encounter table, however, was helpful.

 

[Minigiant]

There are a lot of clever ideas in this thread.

Minigiant... I'm curious, did you give much thought to "the bank" and how it would work within the game world?

Typically, in Medieval Europe, assets were held by the state or church, with the majority of people entrusting their small savings to the church. The roman catholic church was the largest bank in the world until the emergence of economic theory and the banking industry in the 1700's.

The other major asset holders were the mob, though they were the least trustworthy for obvious reasons. European Jews, having neither official state nor church recognition, started up their own banks, but those were arguably mob organizations. The jewish people's reluctance to invest their money in official state and church institutions was one of the reasons the Jewish people were subject to the hurtful and anti-semetic propaganda that still persists today.

My point is this: once a person has acquired a certain level of asset control, they should expect to attract the attentions of the existing banking authorities. Both the church and the state will start asking questions and demanding concessions. "The walls of our city protect your gold, therefore you should protect the walls of this city by giving us your money. Now pony up!" and "Why wouldn't you place your trust in the church? Don't you have faith in our god? Perhaps you worship other gods? Selfish gods? Evil gods?"

Overly wealthy PCs might just find themselves suddenly at odds with their sovereign nation, at the center of a war, or marginalized as troublemakers and infidels.

Well before we could even set up the bank, the DM sent a bunch of dragons after us and our gold. It was easy to convince local lord and church leaders that giving them the money directly would cost them too much. Also those churches and local lords got the best rates.

Basically we "gave" money to the locals, funded advneturers to protect good nations, and forced the evil people to attack each other. We only made money on adventuters. Everyone else was a loss.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I like- no, I LOVE- old-style banks as substitutes for bars, guilds and the like as the center of a campaign.

An institution centered entirely around handling money in a FRPG world would need some intelligent workers...and some really good strongarms as well. The Pinkertons were quite feared in their day- why not have PCs as their FRPG equivalent.

If your world's monetary system is as sophisticated as old money-men of Venice, your world would have not just the traditional gold and gems, but certain forms of valuable papers. Not paper money, but things like promissory notes and the like.

Venitian "banks" in those days were already using documents like letters of credit and so forth to minimize the need to ship actual money between cities. Instead, Bank A would issue letters that would instruct Bank B to pay the holder's debts in that new city up to a certain amount. And Bank B's clients would benefit from similar treatment in Bank A's city. At the end of the month, there would be an accounting to see how much of each other's clients' debts were covered by the other bank. Then, instead of several coin shipments- one or more per client, each with its inherent delays and risks- there would be 1 shipment of coins to correct whatever imbalance existed between the banks' accounts.

Such a caravan could be a fine substitute for the traditional kind- it would be smaller but more heavily protected...and just as tempting a target.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

If a PC or PCs are intent on starting a business, the business should be HARD and require a lot of effort. If it's an individual PC, his job should routinely prevent him from traveling with the adventuring party. If the whole group is involved, they should have constant challenges related to the business.

I think it depends on what the players and DM want the business to be in the context of the game - I had a cleric of Bes (god of luck) who opened a casino. The running of the casino was fairly simple - I had him roll a couple of skill checks a month. I didn't mess with the casino too much, though it figured into a fair number of battles and a couple of plot twists - like when their contact in the Thieves Guild (who was responsible for letting them run a gambling house without paying protection money) got killed and the cleric framed for it...