Running an actual heist?

[Umbran]

XP to [MENTION=177]Umbran[/MENTION] for mentioning Leverage. I've only played one session of it, but it's very well-suited to this. As I recall, one thing in particular that it incorporates which is a staple of the genre but very difficult to pull off in a traditional D&D game is the fake-out ending - that point in every heist movie where it seems like the bad guy's won and the good guys have all been caught, and then it turns out to have all been part of the plan. Effectively, if the players earn enough 'plot coupons' during the execution of the heist, they can retcon in some extra piece of planning or deception that will get them out of trouble during the endgame.

Yep, exactly. It is a direct port of how things work in the TV show of the same name (which I also recommend, it is fun!). There are times in the show where we have little flashbacks, where events in the past that the viewers don't know about are explicated.

 

[jgsugden]

You can approach these situations from another angle.

You can have something well protected that the PCs want/need. You can establish appropriate defenses for the thing based upon the resources of the ones that have it. Then the PCs can decide whether to try to steal it in a heist, kill everybod and take it, or negotiate for it. As long as there are non-heist paths to sucess, you don't need to lay a path (or even worry if there is a path) to heist the item.

 

[Derren]

Its possible, but D&D is not really build for it as 99% of the rules is combat and the rest is kinda bare bones. Most of the time you are basically free forming which makes the question if its possible kinda irrelevant.

 

[robus]

XP to @Umbran for mentioning Leverage. I've only played one session of it, but it's very well-suited to this. As I recall, one thing in particular that it incorporates which is a staple of the genre but very difficult to pull off in a traditional D&D game is the fake-out ending - that point in every heist movie where it seems like the bad guy's won and the good guys have all been caught, and then it turns out to have all been part of the plan. Effectively, if the players earn enough 'plot coupons' during the execution of the heist, they can retcon in some extra piece of planning or deception that will get them out of trouble during the endgame.

I’ve not looked at Leverage yet (and it sounds cool!), but as for “plot coupons” one could interpret inspiration in this way perhaps. The players during planning or execution could accumulate inspiration such that it could be used as a pool in order to finagle a clever escape at the end?

How many plot coupons equivalents are we talking?

 

[Nagol]

In addition to Umbran's suggestions which are excellent, I suggest taking a look at Blades in the Dark which has a very nice different take.

ETA ...which I see Laurefindel already mentioned!

​

 

[Mad_Jack]

I’ve not looked at Leverage yet (and it sounds cool!)

The original tv show was five seasons of really damn good television, and definitely worth watching even just for general RPG inspiration.

 

[GlassJaw]

Take a look at Shadowrun adventures. Every adventure in Shadowrun is basically a heist or variation of.

 

[CapnZapp]

So Waterdeep: Dragon Heist apparently provides more of a race to the treasure than a heist in a traditional sense, and this made me wonder, is it possible to pull of an elaborate heist in D&D (and for it to be a fun experience).

Traditionally a heist is split into three parts:

1) Research
2) Planning
3) Execution

The research part includes determining all the security measures (both animate and inanimate) that are protecting the loot. It might include timing the guard patrols, identifying the maker of the safe, measuring the distances of rooms, halls, ceilings, figuring out the weight/size of the treasure etc. I can see this being fun as it involves a lot of stealth-ing and exploration

The planning part takes all the information gleaned from discovery and attempts to devise a cunning plan that will circumvent all the obstacles found during discovery. This part worries me because the players, despite all their best efforts, would still have imperfect knowledge (perhaps that's realistic though...?) There could be some fun parts of attempting to bribe a guard, or duplicate a key, as part of preparing for the heist. But I feel like the DM would have to provide "blueprints" to the location in order for the players to feel like they have base to build on.

The third part is of course the exciting bit where the plan is executed and things typically fall apart

So my question is - has anyone run an adventure like this? Did it work? Was it fun? If it wasn't fun, is it possible to make it fun?

Just don't forget what's fun.

There's a reason successful heist movies like Ocean's Eleven doesn't really bother with research and planning.

Just good looking dudes executin'

 

[CapnZapp]

Its possible, but D&D is not really build for it as 99% of the rules is combat and the rest is kinda bare bones. Most of the time you are basically free forming which makes the question if its possible kinda irrelevant.

THANK YOU.

But tell that to WotC who insists their three pillars are equal...

 

[CapnZapp]

You can approach these situations from another angle.

You can have something well protected that the PCs want/need. You can establish appropriate defenses for the thing based upon the resources of the ones that have it. Then the PCs can decide whether to try to steal it in a heist, kill everybod and take it, or negotiate for it. As long as there are non-heist paths to sucess, you don't need to lay a path (or even worry if there is a path) to heist the item.

I don't know.

If your players are anything like mine, the option to fight your way to the goal must be explicitly off the table, before they'll try any other approach.

That's not me dumping my players btw. D&D pretty much is geared towards solution-by-combat, so it's hardly their fault if that's their assumption.

Much better to already say from the outset the mission-giver doesn't tolerate bloodshed or something that clearly flags "this adventure is about alternative approaches".