Running an actual heist?

[robus]

The problem every would-be enthusiastic heist scenario writer (or just proponent of the genre) needs to face is:

The heist genre isn't built for free will.

Everything that makes heists in movies etc so great is because the improbable happens while the probable don't.

The fundamental building block of any good heist is not rolling the dice. It's the exact opposite of a regular rpg scenario, and it is spectacularly unsuited to something like D&D.

On the other hand, it can be much more compatible with a storytelling game. (If each player has a hand of cards describing various elements of heists, then the variability is only which archetypal sequence happens first.)

The difference is that while D&D is (rightly) described as cooperative, it's still "us vs the world". What you need for a heist is instead a "we're describing the world" game.

A heist has much more in common with world-building, than the subsequent step where you have adventures in that world. The excitement isn't derived from "will you or won't you lift the neclace off of Lady Shaggenbimple's neck in time" because of course you will. The enjoyment of a good heist is instead its components, how well they fit together, and what end-game twists there are.

In that perspective, WotC's only fault was to call their adventure something something heist in the first place.

I picked up the Here's to Crime DM's Guild offering and it's pretty slick. The flashback feature is very cleverly done. The whole thing is definitely a lot lighter on its feet than what I would have come up with.

 

[Blue]

Several people have mentioned Blades in the Dark and the Leverage RPG. Both are built around that sort of thing. And there are lessons we can take from them.

One of the things that heist experience with non-heist games (like D&D but more like shadowrun) is that it ended up being hours of not-exciting planning that then came apart at the seams at the first unexpected part and was invalidated. I play in the evenings - I don't have time for three hours of mostly wasted planning in my gaming.

So work out that "planning happened", and determine the sorts of things that each characters is suited for havign prepped, be it special equipment gathered, bribes made, stealthy recon, whatever. Give them resources of that type - but unspecified.

Then run the heist. Whenever something comes up, players can spend some of those "pre-planning" resources, realizing the exact nature of what they "have always been" in ways to influence the narrative.

For example, the alchemist in the party whipped up several formulas based on "what he'd heard". We don't know what they are, just that he spent 300 gp and has three of them. During the actual heist they are beset on by dogs, and the alchemist whips out vial with really strong smells that send the hounds racing away.

From the in-game narrative, the alchemist had that vial the whole time. Form a player/DM out-of-game perspective, it wasn't until it was needed that it transformed from "alchemical prep #1" to "strong scents to chase away beasts".

Another part might be running into a guard patrol, but another player turns "prep stealthy recon" into "know the guards schedule" and you rewind a little bit, spend some time to let them pass, and then sneak through without alerting the patrol.

This lets you jump into the action, and reward players / maintain the narrative of the types of prep the characters could do without spending loads of time that may not be relevant.

 

[jimmytheccomic]

I picked up the Here's to Crime DM's Guild offering and it's pretty slick. The flashback feature is very cleverly done. The whole thing is definitely a lot lighter on its feet than what I would have come up with.

Thank you! That was my work, I'm glad you enjoyed.

 

[robus]

Thank you! That was my work, I'm glad you enjoyed.

I was wondering if there was a connection...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

As a side note, the upcoming Al season for Eberron indicates some heist type adventures. Can't wait to see if they can pull it off better than DH!

I've never used AL adventures for my home group, but these sound great!

DDAL-ELW03 The Cannith Code

Level Range: 1-4 (optimized for 3rd level)
Adventure Designer: Cindy Moore
Adventure Description: To crack a secret code, the characters trace the gnome who formulated the cipher. When they learn he’s been imprisoned in a high-security compound, they launch the jailbreak of the century to bust him out.
Adventure Length: 2 to 4 hours
DMsGuild Release: Friday, October 12 2018

DDAL-ELW07 Blades of Terror

Level Range: 5-10 (optimized for 7th level)
Adventure Designer: Lysa Chen
Adventure Description: What secret cargo is House Cannith hiding in an airship bound for Aundair? A simple heist at 30,000 feet turns deadly when a new threat rises out of the Mournland!
Adventure Length: 2 to 4 hours
DMsGuild Release: Friday, November 9 2018


DDAL-ELW08 The Kundarak Job

Level Range: 5-10 (optimized for 8th level)
Adventure Designer: Shawn Merwin
Adventure Description: One of Sharn’s most influential figures is hiding something… inside a House Kundarak vault. To acquire the answers they need, the characters must break into one of Sharn’s most secure locations AND get out alive.
Adventure Length: 2 to 4 hours
DMsGuild Release: Friday, November 16 2018

Shoot! I didn't even know about this!

Aren't AL adventures on DMsGuild?

Anyway, DnD is completely compatible with heists. Some flashback mechanics and other "plot coupon" mechanics help, but they aren't necessary. You can just ask, "how does your careful planning or improvisational skill get you out of this mess?" when the dice go bad, and never be attached to a specific course of action.

 

[Horwath]

I have done it. The PCs wanted a magic artifact that was held by a Royal Wizard. I designed the defenses - intentionally leaving one vulnerability that could be found.

The PCs did stealthy research, uncovered most of the defenses, and crafted a plan. Then, like the heroes they were, they immediatly discarded it, charged in, murdered royal guards, killed the wizard, set off traps that killed more guards and finally committed double regicide by murdering the King, and then murdering his son one round later. They then declared themselves the rulers just long enough to claim the artifact and abandon their peoples.

With another group I had a better heist scenario where the PCs were hired to play a role in the heist, not realizing that the person hiring them had other hidden plans... There was more of a heist movie feel for that adventure.

So, yeah - it can be done... but only with the right PCs.

Biggest problem with working out heist scenario is the "d20" just one fail stealth/deception check and it is all over.

And you need rogues and bards in party. If not whole party.

Expertise in stealth and deception and at least one expertise in perception, investigation and thief tools.


but most likely will be this scenario:

Rogue: that clutz of a paladin just knocked down that vase?

Wizard: yep, he sure did.

Rogue: great, now half the guard heard that.

Wizard: ahem. Oh, frakk it... "FIREBALL!"

 

[Azzy]

[MENTION=6776133]Bawylie[/MENTION] had wrote an awsome article about running an Ocean's 11-style heist a while back.

 

[robus]

Biggest problem with working out heist scenario is the "d20" just one fail stealth/deception check and it is all over.

See the stuff earlier in the thread about the “flashback” idea, this is how you overcome setbacks like these in an entertaining and heist-movie-like manner.

 

[Wiseblood]

A heist will almost never be the players plan.

To make a heist you need NPC’s.
You need some or all of the following.

1: A Target
2: An NPC that can let the party know the target exists. This NPC May have a plan already or may know a key ingredient to acquire the target.
3: NPC’s that want to get or keep the target.
4: an NPC with Resources that are needed to acquire the target. (Information or materials the players don’t have)
It’s best if there are multiple encounters to get it or stages to get it.
5: a getaway plan
6: a patsy
7: a fixer (someone with specialized skills or resources that will assist in the heist and possibly execution)
8: a buyer
9: a fence (can be #2 or #7)
10: opposition this could be the law, a rival group, a recovery team or just some nosy neighbors to come sniffing around and threaten the operation


There could be more but it’s all about the NPCs

 

[Wiseblood]

A heist will almost never be the players plan.

To make a heist you need NPC’s.
You need some or all of the following.

1: A Target
2: An NPC that can let the party know the target exists. This NPC May have a plan already or may know a key ingredient to acquire the target.
3: NPC’s that want to get or keep the target.
4: an NPC with Resources that are needed to acquire the target. (Information or materials the players don’t have)
It’s best if there are multiple encounters to get it or stages to get it.
5: a getaway plan
6: a patsy
7: a fixer (someone with specialized skills or resources that will assist in the heist and possibly execution)
8: a buyer
9: a fence (can be #2 or #7)
10: opposition this could be the law, a rival group, a recovery team or just some nosy neighbors to come sniffing around and threaten the operation


There could be more but it’s all about the NPCs