Running dungeons with high level PCs (my players don't read - and yes, I'll know!)

[RangerWickett]

Well, the meanest thing I ever did dungeon wise was completely designed to nerf high-level adventurers. The players hated it, but they knew ahead of time that this dungeon was designed so that people would simply not make it in. The dungeon was built in an area of the world that had long ago had magic removed from it, and so when a few thousand years ago a group of well-funded heroes decided to lock away an immortal evil forever, they built the dungeon here.

Unfortunately, in this adventure, a group of Nazi-like Orcs (think the Nazis from Indiana Jones movies) were trying to release the evil. They had huge resources at their disposal, and so they would not be stopped, unless the PCs could get to the evil first. The PCs had earlier learned how to kill the immortal evil for good, so in order to stop the badguys, they'd have to get into the dungeon first, find the immortal guy, and stop him.

The entire area was antimagic. The entrance seems safe enough, so that people will try to go in rather than be stubborn and dig through hundreds of feet of stone (which is a feasible solution, if you're not in a rush). You enter a chamber where the history of the badguy is recorded, and it warns you to go no further. If you do go further, the entrance to the next room triggers the sealing of the previous room, and the floor drops out, dumping you down a 100-ft. shaft to a spiked bottom. When you hit bottom, that triggers another trap that simply sprays the area with water, hopefully extinguishing any torches you might have. Remember, no magical light.

Now, this dungeon was intended to be an annoying hurdle that the PCs would get through with some cunning tactics and good tomb raiding skills. After getting through it, they'd stop the big bad evil and get a few relics that were trapped down there too, plus learn some information that would help them stop another plot that was connected to this one. This was supposed to be the third-to-last episode, which would show them that they can still be heroes without magic. And the last two episodes would have let them see again how cool they are with all their magic.

What instead happened was that they got fed up, and half the players left to go see Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. We went to college after that, and I never finished that campaign.

I like to think I learned something from that dungeon.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Definately infest the walls with undead spirits - Wraiths, Spectres, Ghosts, Allips, anything incorporeal infests the walls and lashes out at anything that enters.

If your characters are REALLY tearing up the place, they better make some decent Knowledge(Architecture and Engineering) checks or they might wind up bringing the house down on themselves!

Mazes should be sealed by force-walls or layers of obdurium, or otherwise made impossible (or at least a huge pain in the butt) to directly exit by tearing through the walls. You might wrench your way through the center walls, but goddammit, you've got to get through that trapped hell-hole somehow. Once you get to the other side, you've crossed a planar barrier - Teleport can get you back to the maze, which of course you've probably built a highway through by now, but you still have to either walk or Plane Shift to get back up to a higher level.

Also, keep in mind that a simple Divination by the clerics of the temple can provide good intel on when the players will most likely strike next, so they won't be caught off guard ALL the time.

 

[Piratecat]

What instead happened was that they got fed up, and half the players left to go see Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. We went to college after that, and I never finished that campaign.

I like to think I learned something from that dungeon.

A good lesson. At the end of the day, dungeoneering is supposed to be fun instead of frustrating.

 

[Psion]

1) A trapped room that had alternating zones of Reverse Gravity. It works even better when a Beholder is floating in the room along with them, easily moving about.

Wouldn't the beholder's antimagic eye tend to shut off the reverse gravity zones?

(Then, it occurs to me that this might not be a disadvantage for the beholder. Fighter comes charging, rotate until the zone is no longer covered by the antimagic cone, fighter goes flying upwards...)

I my have to steal this for the next adventure...

 

[Psion]

A good lesson. At the end of the day, dungeoneering is supposed to be fun instead of frustrating.

I think with the right set of players, Ryan's scenario would have been great fun. Problem-solver type players probably would have lapped it up.

But the thing to take home here, I think, is know thy players. I only really have one big "problem solver" type player. And ironically, she doesn't like to play wizards.

 

[der_kluge]

Another good tip is to make the players play the Meta game.

What is the meta game, you ask? Make the PLAYERS paranoid, not the characters. Make them make random spot and search checks, and when you tell them (even after possibly high rolls), they find nothing. They'll go insane trying to find stuff that isn't there. "He made us roll for it, there MUST be something here!"

Have them make listen checks to hear the sounds of monsters growling, or chains rattling. In a dungeon, these sounds travel great distances, but may in fact be no where near the party. They might even waste spells in preparation for combat there is no where near them.

Make them roll Will saves at random times. Rules lawyers will quickly figure out that they are being Scryed. Even if no one is scrying them, the players will believe that they are. Hey, all you asked them to do was make a Will save. Where's the harm in that? Better yet, if someone rolls really, really high, and you still don't indicate that something is wrong, they'll get REALLY paranoid, because they'll perceive that the save is so high that the villain doing the scrying must have a huge advantage over them.

 

[Morrus]

There's some great advice in this thread. Thanks, guys.

My players will hate you - if you see Darmanicus, Inconsequenti-Al or dpulse33 around on the boards, be sure to give them a knowing wink and maybe a slightly evil chuckle.

 

[der_kluge]

I had designed a dungeon in Ravenloft in college, and it was a nightmare. Full of random rooms, and there were all these locked doors made of different things, each with a matching key. So, to open the gold door you needed the gold key, bronze door/bronze key, etc. But, there were all these traps all over the place, and teleport gates that hopped you from one place to the next. The players got frustrated with it fairly quickly, and they quit. Those players were kind of flaky anyway, but it was nigh impossible to navigate that dungeon.

So, yes, dungeons can be made *too* difficult.

 

[TiQuinn]

Wouldn't the beholder's antimagic eye tend to shut off the reverse gravity zones?

(Then, it occurs to me that this might not be a disadvantage for the beholder. Fighter comes charging, rotate until the zone is no longer covered by the antimagic cone, fighter goes flying upwards...)

I had the beholder moving around quite a bit, occasionally closing his eye to allow the reverse gravity to come back on in a particular area if he wanted to. Just when the PCs got comfortable with the gravity effects (using fly spells, feather fall, and the like), the beholder would open central eye again, and dispel it all.

 

[TiQuinn]

Wouldn't the beholder's antimagic eye tend to shut off the reverse gravity zones?

(Then, it occurs to me that this might not be a disadvantage for the beholder. Fighter comes charging, rotate until the zone is no longer covered by the antimagic cone, fighter goes flying upwards...)

I had the beholder moving around quite a bit, occasionally closing his eye to allow the reverse gravity to come back on in a particular area if he wanted to. Just when the PCs got comfortable with the gravity effects (using fly spells, feather fall, and the like), the beholder would open central eye again, and dispel it all.