D&D 5E Running Eberron in 5E

[fuindordm]

... Sorcery Points, or Warlock Invocations, or Channel Divinity.

What would be the Artificer's big mechanical hook? A different list of things isn't enough. Infusion mechanics have potential, but there's not much distinguishing them from "casting a spell into an item, and then using that item to cast the spell" right now. Arguably, there shouldn't be, since that's kind of what it's always been like. But if there's one area that there's room for improvement on, it's how both 3e and 4e treated item creation, so there's certainly room to do something awesome there.

Well, the 3E class was really a jack of all trades. You take Artificer if you want to be able to do a bit of everything. So I don't think it needs a very strong hook. Like the wizard, the attraction of the class is its flexibility.

I think the most important unique mechanic this class should have is that the player can create permanent magic items without negotiating with the DM. You know that you will make a discovery each level, and that you can spend your gold and downtime to create those items. Maybe 1/level is too much, I don't know. But that's the really effective thing you get out of this class: maybe you don't get an extra attack at 5th level, but you can make sure everyone in the party has a +1 weapon, or is well stocked in healing potions, or that your trio of iron defenders will protect you from harm, or so on.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Well, the 3E class was really a jack of all trades. You take Artificer if you want to be able to do a bit of everything. So I don't think it needs a very strong hook. Like the wizard, the attraction of the class is its flexibility.

Personally, I imagine everything needs a strong story hook...but I was mostly talking about mechanical distinction.

And if "versatility" is the mechanical attraction, again, I'm pointed at a wizard subclass. Give it a feature that makes them a little more durable and a little more skill-y, with some access to others' spell lists, and you've got a flexible, versatile caster. But this is also why there's a lot of overlap with the bard (jack-of-all trades indeed!) and the cleric (the original gish).

I think the most important unique mechanic this class should have is that the player can create permanent magic items without negotiating with the DM. You know that you will make a discovery each level, and that you can spend your gold and downtime to create those items. Maybe 1/level is too much, I don't know. But that's the really effective thing you get out of this class: maybe you don't get an extra attack at 5th level, but you can make sure everyone in the party has a +1 weapon, or is well stocked in healing potions, or that your trio of iron defenders will protect you from harm, or so on.

I don't think we'll see a class that can make items out of the DMG without negotiation with the DM. Magic items in 5e aren't designed to be readily accessible and convenient like they were in 3e. They're not really supposed to be easy or reliable.

That said, Eberron has easy and reliable magic (5e's default actually makes the setting MORE distinct in this respect), and I do think there's room for a class whose class features take the form of items that are unique to that class (rather than being the same items as the DMG contains). You don't learn cantrips, you build wands. You don't cast spells, you scribe scrolls and brew potions. You don't make extra attacks, you make swords of swiftness. The challenge there is making this more than cosmetic. If you've got a character who can build a wand that casts mending, and it works mechanically exactly like casting the cantrip mending except instead of Verbal, Somatic, and Material components, you just need your wand...that's not strongly distinct, and points to subclass territory again.

I imagine it's possible to have that, but it'd be something that artificers haven't had before. Which might make them too different from what had come before...

 

[Boarstorm]

Which might make them too different from what had come before...

I would welcome an artificer class that was rebuilt from the ground up, personally. Previously, they have always had (IMO) a little too much inherited from the wizard. A new system designed just for them? Heck yes. I always felt that the infusions were just reskinned wizard spells anyway.

The main problem I see is balance. If a party member can make trinkets with minor magical effects and hand them out like candy, does that infringe on the other party members abilities? And if the artificer CAN'T do that, then what makes them unique?

One thing I dislike for certain is the PF-alchemist solution (heh, pun!) that their concoctions could only by used by the alchemist himself (in most cases).

 

[collin]

I would welcome an artificer class that was rebuilt from the ground up, personally. Previously, they have always had (IMO) a little too much inherited from the wizard. A new system designed just for them? Heck yes. I always felt that the infusions were just reskinned wizard spells anyway.

The main problem I see is balance. If a party member can make trinkets with minor magical effects and hand them out like candy, does that infringe on the other party members abilities? And if the artificer CAN'T do that, then what makes them unique?

One thing I dislike for certain is the PF-alchemist solution (heh, pun!) that their concoctions could only by used by the alchemist himself (in most cases).

I think item creation would need to be a part of a 5e artificer class, but I would put most of those greater crafting skills at higher levels than they were in 3e. I think an alchemist would make a decent archetype or subclass for an artificer, but I reject the idea of redoing a PF alchemist to create an artificer class for 5e. Might as well just create an alchemist.

 

[collin]

Don't know if the dragonmark discussion is still going, but here's my two cents:

Instead of granting a free feat to everyone at 1st level, grant everyone a free ASI that can be only be traded in for a Dragonmark; you get one or the other, but you don't step on the Variant Human's toes.

I like this idea better than granting a free 'feat' at 1st level, and beyond. We need to get away from thinking of 5th edition in 3rd or 4th edition terms. Feats in 5th edition are just plain different than in 3e. If someone wanted to add a group of Minor Feats or Traits as an optional rule, I would not object, but I think making Dragonmarks outright feats does not fit the 5th edition game system.

 

[Andor]

Does Artificer even need to be a class?

Consider that potion making is now a mere tool proficiency.

You could simply have an Artificers toolkit which allows the creation of minor items. And then have a feat or set of stacking feats that expand on what you can make, similarly to how the healer feat expands what you can do with a healing kit.

Being a professional Artificer is then easily encompassed by the guildmember background, possibly with some Eberron specific fluff tying them to House Canith.

 

[Wrathamon]

For me the Artificer was the bard replacement, the party member that feels in the holes in the group.

[MENTION=1879]Andor[/MENTION] "Does Artificer even need to be a class?"

well you could say that about all the classes to be fair.

For me the artificer isn't about making potions or magic items in their shop. It's about how they replicate magic by making items that do the same thing that a spell does. And, they do it during an adventure, when the situation comes up they make something to solve the problem.

Its about Making and they use "magic" opposed to science to create these magical technological devices.

Full-metal alchemist is a good reference, as is, Captain Nemo, and a lot of steam punk (but replace steam with magic)

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

So far I'd say kamizake midget's infusion ability (cast a spell into an object once/short rest), sort of an even broader version of the playtest arcane archer ability, is probably the coolest and most flexible artificer-style ability I've seen here. I think you could base an entire wizard subclass around that one ability.

 

[Remathilis]

Just spit-balling here...

So far, magic items in 5e work very differently than in 3e (and 4e). They are supposed to be rarer, more powerful, and require attunement to get the most out of them. In 3e/4e, many of them just granted a mechanical bonus (+1 to AC, +5 Climb, etc) that could be replicated with proper spells (Shield of Faith, Bull Strength) which is what the artificer infusion list actually does.

What if we do it differently...

What if an artificer could make temporary magical items that mimicked real magic items? Not "This shirt has shield of faith on it, +2 to AC" but "This bag now acts like a bag of holding" type stuff. As he gains levels, make permanent ones quicker or cheaper than a normal mage.

3e Artificers worked off an "artificer reserve" mechanic; in 3e it was bonus XP usable for crafting but in 5e, it could be like sorcery points that you could spend to temporarily make a magic item. Burn enough points, and you could make a folding boat or a ring of energy resistance for a day. You could also use points to change items functions, bypass restrictions and even temporarily attune to an item without penalty.

Magic items are based around rarity (Common through Legendary). As an artificer gains levels, he gains the ability to make (and affect) rarer and rarer items. He might only be able to do Common at first, Uncommon at 3rd, but by 20th he can even affect Legendary items.

Augmenting this would be spells (either that temporarily buff, heal, or affect magic). Toss in some goodies like Use Magic Device, Expertise, and proper proficiency and he's good to go.

Oh, his subclasses?

Homoculous Master lets him burn his Artificer Reserve to augment constructs; adding new abilities to them without relying on infusions.
Alchemists can make magical bombs, attempt crazy potions combinations, even avoid miscability rolls (just look at PF's alchemist for ideas)
Runeforgers get a bonded magical weapon they can burn points into enchanting, giving it additional abilities like sentience or doing so at a discounted rate.
Mastermakers can use their AR on themselves to augment.

 

[Fralex]

What if we do it differently...

What if an artificer could make temporary magical items that mimicked real magic items? Not "This shirt has shield of faith on it, +2 to AC" but "This bag now acts like a bag of holding" type stuff. As he gains levels, make permanent ones quicker or cheaper than a normal mage.

Woah, this is weird, earlier today I had the same idea! This could be a sign we're doing something right. You could start off just being able to apply minor properties from the table in the DMG, and gradually learn how to replicate the properties of stronger magic items, maybe combining different properties in new ways or something.