Running Larger Games

[Liquidsabre]

Basic Info:
Forgotten Realms
Sea of Fallen Stars Campaign
7 Players (5th level)

Recently my campaign I run on the weekends has evolved into a rather large group of swarthy beings. Normally I do not allow so many in a game but circumstances were such that it sort of just happened.

They are a great bunch but how are DMs suppose to run such games so smoothly? The game runs moderately well IMO but I realize that character development is something that actually hinders enjoyment of all when not all are present or when an encounter is roleplayed out and not all PCs are there. I prefer to roleplay as much as we hack so this bothers me a bit. Perhaps I must incorporate multiple PC development issues instead, if anyone cares to comment on NPC plot-weabing with multiple PCs please share.

Second, I had also not realized that the PCs must be uber-cooperative with each other to maintain the enjoyment of all as compared to smaller games. For example, I've had Wizards sit out most of the game when scribing scrolls in town while the rest of the party goes and do things in town. I found this to be quite disturbing as the party was in the middle of an active adventure (plots running amok and NPCs upset at them for their actions, waiting to strike back or bargain) and other PCs had planned interactions with other NPCs as well. Naturally this lead to complaints on the Wizard's part. But I told them they had to choose their actions as did the other PCs and that I was not responsible for them. It is the responsibility of the players to decide what and how to do things as a group or not. As DM I will not be held accountable for player actions. Is this wrong? I plan on going back and talking to the entire group next game about the need for certain meta-game concessions and realizations concerning player enjoyment and will leave it at that I imagine. We are a mature group (read 20-30 somethings) so that should be all I need to do but I'd still like to hear about other management stories and such for other experienced DMs in case other problems that I haven't forseen do occur.

Well, I can see now that the smaller problems in smaller games grow exponentially larger with the growth of the number of players (go figure ). So I'd love to hear how others handle larger groups (especially roleplaying and character development) and the techniques that other DMs might have uncovered that could help my game run a bit smoother in the future to the enjoyment of all.

Thanks!

 

[Salad Shooter]

Up at school my DM somehow ended up with a massive group (evolved from about 3, now theres 8 of us) So he split the party up, with plans that we'll meet back up eventually. This is giving him enough time to figure out what he's going to do with this many players. Right now we're in two groups of three and one group of 2. Who knows what he's going to do with us when we all meet back up, especially since its a pain to get 9 over-active college students to meet at one place at one time.

 

[S'mon]

I think 7 is pretty well the limit on the most players you can have in a regular group. I GM for 7 players, it works but they need to stay tightly focussed on 'this week's mission', and character-building roleplay interactin loses out somewhat. The classic dungeon crawl is perhaps the most suitable environment for large group play; city adventures possibly the hardest to run. Running a lengthy mass battle with 7 PCs on one side didn't work very well, most of the players got frustrated. I should have abstracted the battle and focussed on PCs' group fighting the enemy heroes as a group.

A large group makes wilderness adventures much easier, due to the wide variety of powers available, but makes less impact in the constricted restraints of a dungeon. At a guess, something like Night Below, Dragon Mountain and such might be good for a large group. One problem though is that the more players you have the more likely it is some won't show for a particular session. IME the best solution is to run fairly short, episodic one-session scenarios connected with a general theme, with the group returning to a common base after each adventure. More like a TV series than a fantasy book trilogy. I ran a series of short adventures centred on the Lost City of Gaxmoor, which worked well as a dungeon-like setting. One-session quests into a persistent mega-dungeon each based around a specific goal - item retrieval, assassination, rescue etc - ought to work well. Endless quests haven't worked so well for me - thinking eg Necropolis, although this has other major problems.

 

[Darklone]

I had 9 players, usually 8. Ask Piratecat for his bigger groups.

All you need is time and a relaxed mood and gaming till 6 A.M.

 

[Buttercup]

I have seven players, and have for over a year now. The main problem this has created for me is one of balance. 3.0/3.5 is balanced for a party of 4, so the farther away you get from that "ideal" the more you have to alter encounters. I wish I could say that I get it right consistently, but I don't. Sometimes the enounter I think will be tough is way too easy, and sometimes I miscalculate and throw an encounter at them that is far too difficult. (Without meaning to, I mean. Nothing wrong with teaching them to run!)

The only other problem is that combat takes forever with that many individuals involved.

 

[Piratecat]

We average eight players; right now I think we're at seven, with a few NPCs for occasional guests. Running RPGA games for years got me used to a six person table, and adding one or two more isn't a problem as long as you have your systems down and you remember a few general rules.

1. Pay attention to everyone equally. It's important to go around the table and focus on each player, especially when you aren't in combat time.

2. Get everyone to talk. This means that the NPCs will sometimes specifically address questions and statements to the quieter players.

3. Create plot threads intrinsic to the quieter players. That way they have to get involved. Larger campaigns sometimes develop a "loud player" and "quiet player" focus, and designing plots that emphasize the quieter members help balance things out and make sure that everyone has fun.

4. Minimize table talk. We use "the piggy", and everyone is so used to it that we almost never have problems any more. This is really important, though, because more people means more table talk if you don't so something about it. Likewise, play in a quiet place! A TV nearby can be a disaster with a big group.

5. Use tricks to speed up combat. Index cards, preparation, announcing who is coming up, rolling damage at the same time you roll to hit - these are all techniques to make combat run more quickly. Slow combats are the anchor of a large gaming group.

6. Have enough physical space for everyone. It's no fun playing if everyone doesn't fit around the table.

 

[diaglo]

it can be done.

i had 14 players in my OD&D campaign.

i was a little small for the day. (the booklets said 20 was optimal)

get help from your players. they are there to have fun and be social just as much as you are. try and keep everyone focused on main "bullets". but don't discourage them from roleplaying amongst themselves.

present challenges they can hash out themselves. or npcs. give the npcs personalities....some don't like to talk to large groups...just like Pkitty mentions. pick individuals.


yes, pick on the players. challenge them to be their characters.

 

[CombatWombat51]

Funny, I was just going to make a thread about huge groups. My old regular group had 6, sometimes 7 people, plus the DM. I've DMed that same group. However, I'm going to be starting a new group in my new home, where none of the players know how to play D&D well. It's going to have 6 or 7 people, plus me DMing. I think playing should go smoothly enough. 5 of the players played 2nd edition for a while, and Shadowrun, but my impression is that they just kind of bumbled drunkenly along. The 6th player is my fiance, who's familiar with the concept through her brothers, and even talked me into DMing for her, solo, for one session. It should be quite... interesting, and I'm looking for tips, too

 

[Darklone]

Pcat? You're down to 8 players? I thought you were at around 12... Hmm, mess in my head.

I am rather lucky in my 9 guy group. The two dominating players are more the silent kind, they usually let everyone discuss, whine and cry, then talk to each other for a moment and propose some solution. That way I don't really have players that are inactive.

One funny thing about the CR system: I often heard, read and encountered in another group (6 guys) that larger groups usually mean for the players to be more vulnerable since they lack levels compared to a 4 player group.

Now the funny thing: As long as I don't pick a single monster that's appropriate, they kill it much easier than a 4 player group would.

So if one monster X is a big challenge for a 4 player group, then 2 monsters X are laughable (most of the time) for 8 players with a lower group average but the same CR rating as the 4 iconics... sometimes even 3 creatures were not half as interesting as the single monster for the 4 dudes.

So: NEVER EVER TRUST CR!

 

[NewJeffCT]

We average eight players; right now I think we're at seven, with a few NPCs for occasional guests. Running RPGA games for years got me used to a six person table, and adding one or two more isn't a problem as long as you have your systems down and you remember a few general rules.

1. Pay attention to everyone equally. It's important to go around the table and focus on each player, especially when you aren't in combat time.

2. Get everyone to talk. This means that the NPCs will sometimes specifically address questions and statements to the quieter players.

3. Create plot threads intrinsic to the quieter players. That way they have to get involved. Larger campaigns sometimes develop a "loud player" and "quiet player" focus, and designing plots that emphasize the quieter members help balance things out and make sure that everyone has fun.

5. Use tricks to speed up combat. Index cards, preparation, announcing who is coming up, rolling damage at the same time you roll to hit - these are all techniques to make combat run more quickly. Slow combats are the anchor of a large gaming group.

Some good advice, however I would say that make sure you do *not* treat everybody equally and give them equal time. Some people work better in small groups where they can get more attention and more "screen time", while others function better in large groups because their personality & roleplaying style does not demand 15 minutes of fame each session. So, you have to know your group - some gamers will still need a lot of attention and adventure focus, while others are happy just sitting around the table and getting their occasional comment or one liner into the mix. I am not saying forget the quiet folks, but some of them may feel guilty about taking up 12.5% (1/8) of the time in a group of 8 when they may be perfectly happy with 5%... while others are not happy unless they can get 20% of the action. Just make sure you do not forget the quiet folk.

I gamed for several years in a large group - the DM plus 8-10 players. The DM did a good job of making sure our two 'high maintenance' players got their time each session while rotating the 'screen time' for the other, quieter players in the group and made sure that each quieter player had parts of the campaign where they were the focus.

Also, I agree with making sure you speed up combat. After you roll initiatives, make it clear that you expect every player to be ready to go on their turn - if they take more than a few seconds, they are considered to be holding their initiative.