Running Night's Dark Terror in 4e

[pemerton]

Maybe fodder for a different thread, but I'm curious how that worked out. I've converted the other way (run Keep on the Shadowfell in 1e) and while the conversion itself was relatively easy the result wasn't quite what I'd hoped once the dice started flying. I'd be interested in hearing how well a Basic adventure ported to 4e in terms of how well it played.

II've had a lot of experience converting modules written for other systems to run in Rolemaster, and so didn't expect it to be too hard. And it wasn't. I had to redraw some maps at a 5' square resolution, but that was pretty painless. The 4e MM made converting the monsters very straight forward - lots of minions, and a smattering of goblins of various levels, with 4th level Goblin Underbosses in place of the module's goblin kings. The treasure had to be toned down a bit, but again that was pretty easy. (To give some idea in terms of time - maybe one hour per 5 hour session spent on conversion. I do it on the train on the way to and from work.)

As to how it played, pretty well. I think that's a feature of the module, however (which is partly why I chose it). The module starts with an assault on the PCs while they're on a boat. It then has a big attack on a fortified homestead which they have to defend. It then has a trip through the wilderness looking for clues, dealing with horse thieves and invading goblin caves. All these things are good for 4e - encounters involving interesting terrain, a couple of skill challenges, and small encounter areas that suit 4e's skirmish approach to combat.

The later parts of the module I've extended a fair bit, folding in other bits and pieces (eg mixing elements of the Scepter Tower of Spellguard into the barrows from NDT, and using the Chamber of Eyes from Thunderspire Labyrinth as the main dungeon for the ruined city in NDT). So that's less a test of a conversion, although some individual encounters still got carried over and worked pretty well (like some of the tomb encounters).

Still, I'm pretty happy with how it's gone and certainly found the module a good help for getting my campaign going - NPCs, fighting with goblins, a mad wizard hunting down a tapestry, etc.

 

[Lanefan]

II've had a lot of experience converting modules written for other systems to run in Rolemaster, and so didn't expect it to be too hard. And it wasn't. I had to redraw some maps at a 5' square resolution, but that was pretty painless. The 4e MM made converting the monsters very straight forward - lots of minions, and a smattering of goblins of various levels, with 4th level Goblin Underbosses in place of the module's goblin kings. The treasure had to be toned down a bit, but again that was pretty easy. (To give some idea in terms of time - maybe one hour per 5 hour session spent on conversion. I do it on the train on the way to and from work.)

Roughly mirrors my experience when converting KotS the other way - the monsters were easy, but I had to tweak the treasure to suit 1e. Some of the traps presented a slightly bigger argument but nothing at all insurmountable.

As to how it played, pretty well. I think that's a feature of the module, however (which is partly why I chose it). The module starts with an assault on the PCs while they're on a boat. It then has a big attack on a fortified homestead which they have to defend. It then has a trip through the wilderness looking for clues, dealing with horse thieves and invading goblin caves. All these things are good for 4e - encounters involving interesting terrain, a couple of skill challenges, and small encounter areas that suit 4e's skirmish approach to combat.

I've run this module, which is in part why I was asking how well it converted. My experience running it in 1e was, to put it bluntly, awful; and it sounds like large parts of it might in fact make a better 4e adventure than 1e.

That said, some of the encounter areas (goblin lairs e.g.) were pretty tiny, and I thought 4e liked lots of open space. How did that work?

The later parts of the module I've extended a fair bit, folding in other bits and pieces (eg mixing elements of the Scepter Tower of Spellguard into the barrows from NDT, and using the Chamber of Eyes from Thunderspire Labyrinth as the main dungeon for the ruined city in NDT). So that's less a test of a conversion, although some individual encounters still got carried over and worked pretty well (like some of the tomb encounters).

What did you do with the encounter on the bridge at the head of the valley? Going by memory, that one strikes me as a tough one - tweak slightly wrong one way or the other and you've got either a pushover or a TPK.

Still, I'm pretty happy with how it's gone and certainly found the module a good help for getting my campaign going - NPCs, fighting with goblins, a mad wizard hunting down a tapestry, etc.

Maybe that's where I went wrong - I was dropping it into an existing campaign rather than having it *be* the campaign. It certainly offers lots of opportunities for expansion.

Lanefan

 

[pemerton]

I agree that I think in some ways at least it's a better adventure for 4e than Basic/AD&D. I think the skill challenge helped impose a bit of structure on the wilderness wanderings, for example.

The goblin caves weren't too small. Off the top of my head I can remember 4 encounters: the PCs against a group of goblins birracaded behind a wall, which was interesting because while the PCs were stuck at the wall they were vulnerable to archery and a goblin hexer's hexing cloud (area debuff), but once they had control of the wall they were able to clean up the goblins handily; the cavern of the Viper goblin king, which had lots of pillars, making for interesting manoeuvring and cover options; a secondary cavern in the Wolfskull lair, where the PCs were sneaking up but one got dragged into the middle of the room by a hobgoblin forcemage using one of his TK powers, which created an interesting dynamic; and the Wolfskull king's room, which was pretty big (the PCs couldn't move across it in one turn), had tapestries, and involved a lot of maneouvring and positioning for advantage.

I haven't done the valley part of the module and probably won't. I'm not a big fan of lost civilisations, and (following the lead of Thunderspire Labyrinth) am using minotaurs as the former occupants of the land, who were displaced by the Nerathi empire and their goblinoid mercenaries. In my campaign, the tapestries show the way to secret minotaur sites of power, which is why the mad wizard wants them.

That said, I might still try to adapt maps/encounters that look interesting. A bridge sounds good - I'll have to look at it! What makes you worry that it would be hard to adapt?

Also, I remember that you've posted before about your bad experiences with the module. What went wrong for you/your group?

 

[Connorsrpg]

One of the best modules we ran back in the 1e/2e days. In fact, when 4e came out, it was the first old module I thought of that would be IDEAL for the game - (as I did not think 3e suited it at all).

I remember the early parts the best - esp the homestead seige. That was brilliant and with a battlemap inc...way ahead of its time . I would love to bust this out in 4e myself one day.

Keeping an eye on this thread for more info.

 

[Lanefan]

***Spoilers ahead*** for Night's Dark Terror

I haven't done the valley part of the module and probably won't.

The valley part - from Threshold up to the bridge - was the only part that was any good for me. I never had to worry about anything further as my party never got past the bridge on several attempts.

That said, I might still try to adapt maps/encounters that look interesting. A bridge sounds good - I'll have to look at it! What makes you worry that it would be hard to adapt?

I seem to recall it's a couple of statues that come to life - can't really make 'em minions or they'll be too weak, and if they're "real" 4e monsters they'll be probably too tough. Couple that with any sort of ability at all to push/pull/slide people off the bridge and your party's in for a world o' hurt.

Also, I remember that you've posted before about your bad experiences with the module. What went wrong for you/your group?

You mean other than everything?

I had a hard time figuring out how everything was supposed to connect, for one thing; and who was who and who was working for who. Add to that my group's complete inability to pick up on any sort of clue, and their incredible ability to find new and creative ways to die (e.g. there's one of the Goblin lairs with a moat around it and a bridge - the moat is filled with cold-water piranhas - a Paladin in full armour fell off the bridge during battle with the Goblins, another character dived in to save him, the piranhas got both; so 2 dead out of a party of 5) and the recipe was all in place for a disaster.

At the time, our rule was that if you brought in a new PC it came in a level below the party average. They started as mostly 4ths. By the time they'd made any significant headway they were all 2nds...and that's without a level-drainer in sight!

By the time the party finally figured out that all these seemingly-random encounters and events were at least vaguely connected, they'd managed to piss off every intelligent being in the area! (as I recall, some of the locals are supposed to be friendly to the PCs...that didn't stop my guys, who tried to kill 'em all anyway...)

Then they tried the valley. The lower valley nearly killed them. Then they got to the bridge, got beaten to a pulp by the statues to the point where two PCs were all that was left; these sneaked back down and out of the valley and never went back.

Years later in the same campaign, I did get some good adventuring out of having a more competent party go in and clear out the lower valley, but that was mostly stuff I'd made up by then. That group also went up to the bridge and again didn't get any further...sigh.

Maybe it was my own lack of comprehension, but my biggest headache as DM was trying to figure out from the module who was on what side in the lowlands and how it all was supposed to fit in with the cult in the upper valley.

Lan-"I still shudder at the thought of ever running that module again"-efan

 

[pemerton]

Lanefan, thanks for the reply. My players avoided the moat by getting captured by the goblins instead, and having to break out of captivity! They found it later, but didn't actually have to fight near it. They thought about using it to leave the caves altogether, but after discovering the piranhas (I think someone lost a healing surge) they took a different route.

As to the clues, I know what you mean. There's a fair bit going on. My players were mostly motivated by the "stop Golin raids"/"resuce prisoners" concerns, but learning about the tapestry made them a bit more interested in nefarious schemes.

 

[pemerton]

I remember the early parts the best - esp the homestead seige. That was brilliant and with a battlemap inc...way ahead of its time . I would love to bust this out in 4e myself one day.

Keeping an eye on this thread for more info.

The siege ran very well.

I used a brief skill challenge (complexity 1 or 2, I think) for the dash to the gates - the PC who failed had to take on a wolf-mounted goblin (I used 4e wolf stats rather than worg or dire wolf stats, for 1st level PCs) and another PC stopped to help with that fight, I think.

The encounter once they entered the homestead I think I ran as level 1 or 2 - a couple of real goblins and the rest minions. That was fine, with some interesting terrain from the damage outworks and the smoke. After winning that fight the PCs wanted to extinguish the fire, so I ran that as another quick skill challenge. I think there was one failure before success, so they lost a bit more of the outworks but saved the gatehouse at the bridge, which turned out to be good for them.

Then they did a bit of interacting with the NPCs before setting up a few defences where the fences had burned down.

I can't remember exactly how the rest panned out - I do know that there was an evening raid which they repelled, with the warlock and paladin holding the gatehouse, the wizard and archer attacking from the tower and the fighter defending the exposed flank of the homestead against the Redblades. But for having preserved the gatehouse the PCs would have lost, I think. I know that the goblins trying to break down the gate with a ram were level 3 brutes, and that the paladin and a lurker fought one another through the grille of the gatehouse.

Then, when the goblins tried to lure them out with the dress trick, it worked and they went out! This ended up being a very close fight, as they took on a very large number of goblins in the forest at night. But in the end they prevailed. Which meant that there was no final raid on the homestead.

All-in-all a very satisfying series of encounters.