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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9370189" data-attributes="member: 7030563">You seem to be repeatedly quoting me though?  If you don't want to have a discussion why are you doing that?The math is not subjective though and the math does not support the idea that the damamge you get from using a divine smite is worth the spell slot.I used Steel Wind Strike earlier, but even a spell like Inflict Wounds is more damage, much more damage in fact on a damage-per-slot basis.  Now Inflict rounds has other problems, you have to use it before you hit, it does not have the action economy advantages, but we can in fact objectively say it does more damage per spell slot level.I would disagree with this.  In at low level combat Bless is almost always useful, so is Wrathful Smite.  PEG and Command are as well and so are a lot of their subclass spells.  Then there are a ton of out of combat uses of Paladin spells.I am talking about combat spells specifically and Paladins can prepare any of them.  Any of the Paladin spells are usable with slots. Some of the spells I posted are objectively better than using a smite of the same level in most circumstances.  Some are subjectively better.  But those are not the only ones that are better, they are just the one typically rated high that I feel most would agree are better.But spell slots can be used to do things other than deal damage and dealing damage (whether from smite or from a damaging spell like fireball) is generally a weak use of a spell slot.Not always a weak use, but generally a weak use and not overpowered by any stretch.Numerous people repeatedly post on this forum about how Wizards and magic are overrated and need to be nerfed or whatever.  You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a post about how spells are OP.You have many more threads about how using magic for control is better and more effective than using magic for damage.Since Smites are less damage generally than damaging spells of the same level, the natural and logical conclusion from that is that Smites are not generally powerful as compared to using that slot for a spell.Casting a spell for damage is not a good use of a spell slot AND Smites generally do less damage than spells of the same level.  The natural conclusion there is that smites are not an effective use of slots.I am basing it a lot on play too.  Most of the Paladins I have seen played used smites a lot but the most powerful and effective Paladins I have seen in play did not use smites a lot.Now if you have actually seen Paladin PC in your game that did not regularly smite and used CD often and used spells slots primarily to cast spells AND that Paladin was less effective than others you've seen that used them for smites then maybe your personal experience contradicts mine.  I've seen that very often too, most of the time in fact.  But it has been far less effective than the Paladins I have seen that used slots to cast spells.Wrathful Smite in particular is a devasting 1st level spell and Paladins that rely on that heavily and use it tactically are very effective in combat, more effective than those who don't.It is fantastic in terms of action economy (which is somewhat subjective) and dealing damage quickly.On a per slot basis it is objectively weak in terms of damage compared to using a spell of the same level.Forcecage is overwhelming to a target with no need to crit and no saving throw.Cause Fear is devastating to a melee enemy on a failed save.The Fear spell will end combat for anyone that fails a save and can't get out of sight.  Cast Fear on a BBEG in a room and he fails to save the Sorcerer can walk up and poke him with a dagger until he is dead.Smites can do a ton of damage on a critical hit, but this to be devastating in a meaningful way you actually need to crit when it matters and when you have slots (high level slots in particular).  The most effective use of smites is Nova as mentioned, but that does not work with crit fishing.  You don't get to choose when critical hits happen.  Divine Smite can overwhelm a target in a single hit, but the things I put above all can as well, are generally more easy to pull off and more predictable.There is nothing gamebreaking about divine smite.</blockquote>

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