Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Running Tier 3 D&D 5e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9371466" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>Dispel magic is one spell used as an example and the idea is not to save it, but to use it instead by casting a spell instead of saving it.</p><p></p><p>Also very few enemies that are going to cast hold person are also going to be downed by 18 extra damage. You would need multiple hits and multiple smites and now you are talking about multiple spell slots.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, but then you would not have been able to Divine smite either.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In which case you are out 5.5 damage on average.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In which case Divine Smite would have done nothing more. If using Wrathful Smite kills an enemy or if it dies shortly thereafter then it would have been killed or died shortly thereafter with Divine Smite as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, but then do you really need to use Divine Smite either? If you need to divine smite that means there is a good chance the Wizard will lose that control, in which cast Wrathful Smite is huge.</p><p></p><p>Also it is MUCH easier to shake most Wizard control spells than it is to shake wrathful smite and it is easier to shake all of the 1st level ones.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think a bonus action attack is the most common bonus action on a Paladin. I think a racial ability or a bonus action spell is the most common, occasionally a Channel Divinity.</p><p></p><p>There are very few Paladins that do TWF or have the Crossbow Expert. Some have PAM, but not many.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure and you are out 5.5 damage.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Wrathful Smite is best with good tactics. Ideally you attack with reach and then the enemy can't attack you in melee at all after you hit (on a failed save). If you can't attack with reach you typically take an AOO (with disadvantage) to get out of his reach after you land it. This gives him one attack (with disadvantage) instead of typically 2 or more with multiattack.</p><p></p><p>At higher levels against enemies with Legendary actions and resistances is when it really becomes even more effective because on a fail the DM either has to use a Legendary resistance on it or he really has his mobility effected, with loss of attacks and often losing legendary actions with little chance of breaking free from it, and that is with a first level spell.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Wrathful smite is different though, because there is no further save after you fail the first. It is a check and it takes an action to try.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Most other spells are generally a better use of a spell slot IME. I would reverse this and say using a slot for a smite is better in niche circumstances (in particular like you said when you want to use a lot of resources to do a lot of damage to one enemy).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9371466, member: 7030563"] Dispel magic is one spell used as an example and the idea is not to save it, but to use it instead by casting a spell instead of saving it. Also very few enemies that are going to cast hold person are also going to be downed by 18 extra damage. You would need multiple hits and multiple smites and now you are talking about multiple spell slots. Sure, but then you would not have been able to Divine smite either. In which case you are out 5.5 damage on average. In which case Divine Smite would have done nothing more. If using Wrathful Smite kills an enemy or if it dies shortly thereafter then it would have been killed or died shortly thereafter with Divine Smite as well. Sure, but then do you really need to use Divine Smite either? If you need to divine smite that means there is a good chance the Wizard will lose that control, in which cast Wrathful Smite is huge. Also it is MUCH easier to shake most Wizard control spells than it is to shake wrathful smite and it is easier to shake all of the 1st level ones. I don't think a bonus action attack is the most common bonus action on a Paladin. I think a racial ability or a bonus action spell is the most common, occasionally a Channel Divinity. There are very few Paladins that do TWF or have the Crossbow Expert. Some have PAM, but not many. Sure and you are out 5.5 damage. Wrathful Smite is best with good tactics. Ideally you attack with reach and then the enemy can't attack you in melee at all after you hit (on a failed save). If you can't attack with reach you typically take an AOO (with disadvantage) to get out of his reach after you land it. This gives him one attack (with disadvantage) instead of typically 2 or more with multiattack. At higher levels against enemies with Legendary actions and resistances is when it really becomes even more effective because on a fail the DM either has to use a Legendary resistance on it or he really has his mobility effected, with loss of attacks and often losing legendary actions with little chance of breaking free from it, and that is with a first level spell. Wrathful smite is different though, because there is no further save after you fail the first. It is a check and it takes an action to try. Most other spells are generally a better use of a spell slot IME. I would reverse this and say using a slot for a smite is better in niche circumstances (in particular like you said when you want to use a lot of resources to do a lot of damage to one enemy). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Running Tier 3 D&D 5e
Top