Rust Monster Lovin'

[Kunimatyu]

KM -- it looks like the Beholder belongs on that list as well. Disintegration, flesh to stone, finger of death....

 

[mhensley]

I had enough time to hold up the Wile E. Coyote "in gods name, what am I DOING?" sign before the acid rained down.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Good point, Kunimatyu.

I wonder if part of the reason people have such a love of them is because they are isntant death machines.

DM's love 'em because they scare players.
Players love 'em because they feel good when they get lucky.

They're some of the most overt DM vs. Player competition there is. And there's a lot of love for 'em, even though people keep saying they hate that kind of play. Those same spells and effects are the same things that make people on these very boards complain because they're anticlimactic and they can undo an enemy in just one blow.

At the same time, people seem to like undoing the players in just one blow, and like to get angry when it is suggested that this isn't very much fun.

Hmmm....

 

[The_Gneech]

I have to admit, the Gray Ooze did flit through my mind. Difficult to spot - practically impossible in many cased - a single hit followed by a grapple and you might lose your shirt quite literally.

Then again, how often do people use them?

IMO, a creature that is almost never used is not a well designed creature. Who cares how groovy it is? If it never sees the light of day, then it might as well not be there.

I've used grey ooze to good effect, both as a hazard (one player lost a beloved magic axe to it) and as a great plot hook (the same player disposed of a cursed weapon that had been making his life miserable by tossing it at a different grey ooze later). These were both at 4th level, and the (now disarmed except for an old handaxe) player went out adventuring with renewed vigor to find himself a cool new weapon that he now likes much better than the old one.

In all cases, the "OMG it ate my equipment" encounter enhanced the story and the game.

-The Gneech

 

[The_Gneech]

For a fighter with a tight focus, 2 pieces of equipment could easily comprise the majority of his current character wealth. Most kobolds I've met aren't that rich.

Then go on another adventure and replace it! Why is there so much resistance to this idea? That's the whole concept the game is built on -- kill monsters and take their stuff! Being at reduced effectiveness for a while is not the end of the friggin' world.

-The Gneech

 

[rounser]

Someone else wondered if people would react the same way if the monster was a new creation, and I think the answer is no.

The only problem with your design as I see it is that the flavour (a Monty Pythonesque result of "my sword rusted, but it got better") is being compromised for a design need, therefore you've sided with rules whilst compromising flavour.

Most of my problems with 3E design stem from this; a lot of the monsters I don't like in the MM were obviously created to fulfil a rules need, and I find their flavour poor. With bad flavour, a lot of what makes D&D cool disappears in a puff of smoke.

I think rusty would be fine if the design need was met without changing how oxidisation works; it's a bit too difficult to swallow.

 

[Vanuslux]

I like rust monsters and I'm definitely not a DM vs. Player style gamer on either side of the DM screen. Just because a lot of those style DMs use them doesn't mean that's the limit of their utility. I like them because they rock the status quo. Few things in the lower CRs makes the PCs wake up and smell the coffee like something annihilating their weapon.

 

[ValhallaGH]

The monster wan't nerfed. A single ability was. The monster is actually tougher than it was before. It forces a hard choice, because when the wizard goes up to wail on it, it's potent bite will mean he can't stay up there for long. And you better hope the rogue can climb and listen and spot, because otherwise, the thing is going to sneak up on you five minutes later and smack you around a bit, too.

The monster is a harder beast to defeat. However, it's not as likely to bring the game to a screeching halt. And that is WONDERFUL. That's why this new rust monster is going to see itself in my games tomorrow.

I like your analysis and your encounter desing ideas. Do you have a newsletter I may subscribe to?

 

[ValhallaGH]

Being at reduced effectiveness for a while is not the end of the friggin' world.

But it is often the end of an adventurer's career.
I've been really distressed, as a player, at how 97% of the time I am unable to do anything less than maximum effectiveness and hope for victory. I can't do something cool but ineffective, or intentionally take a penalty because my character doesn't yet consider it a worthy challenge, because doing so will result in character death within one round.
There have been a number of fights where I had to apply metagame knowledge about monster abilities because not using this entirely out of character knowledge would have resulted in a total party kill.

As a player I find this frustrating because there are a large number of times when I'd rather have my character be stylish but I don't want him/her to die, and so I have to sacrifice fun style for boring maximum efficiency.
Sure, this is usually a fault of the encounter design. Yes, I have had encounters where I could have been stylish and ineffective for several rounds and it wouldn't have altered the victorious outcome. Oddly enough, I can't think of a single one of those encounters that I've had as a player where my characters would have wanted to be stylish. The desire for style over efficiency shows up most, from an RP perspective, in those fights where I can least afford it.

As a GM, I applaud style and encourage my players to seek it. It's more interesting and more fun when cool things are being done. I often try and ad hoc rules so that not only is the action cool but it is also effective because my players enjoy having that combination in their characters and I enjoy using that combination with my special NPCs.

 

[Uder]

Why not just get it over with and call it the Slight Tarnish Monster?