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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Rust Monster Lovin'
- Thread starter Glyfair
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Klaus
First Post
There can still be negative consequences. If the Rust Monster 2.0 (what is he, Brainiac?) gets a bonus Improved Disarm feat, it can disarm the fighter of his weapon/shield, scuttle away with the item, then eat it at its leisure for 10 minutes. That is, *unless the characters can get to it first*. So now you have a race against the clock before the damned thing eats away your beloved holy avenger!
Besides giving the beast Improved Disarm, I'd have the penalty fade after a while (the character adjusts to the loss in edge or whatever), but the rust monster's attack also reduces an item's hardness by 1d3 points. If it reaches 0, the item breaks the next time it is used successfully. Craft, mending, make whole and repair damage spells can restore the hardness back to what it was.
In fact, I'd not only give the rust monster Improved Disarm, but I'd also give it Improved Sunder (both with a +4 racial bonus to the check).
Besides giving the beast Improved Disarm, I'd have the penalty fade after a while (the character adjusts to the loss in edge or whatever), but the rust monster's attack also reduces an item's hardness by 1d3 points. If it reaches 0, the item breaks the next time it is used successfully. Craft, mending, make whole and repair damage spells can restore the hardness back to what it was.
In fact, I'd not only give the rust monster Improved Disarm, but I'd also give it Improved Sunder (both with a +4 racial bonus to the check).
hellbender
First Post
WotC does such a wonderful job of promoting other rpgs by offering articles like the one on the rust monster. Do I regret selling my DND books to focus on C&C? No, and especially not after this.
Archade
Azer Paladin
I think this is interesting -- how bad can the consequences be, before you are a rat-bass-curd DM?
I joined another game, to get some player time. And I was shocked to hear the players whining when they took *damage*. Not a lot of damage, but 10hp at 3rd level! A mere scratch! They pouted and complained that the DM was being too harsh.
I use nightwalkers that crumple intelligent swords on round 1. I squish characters under 10d6 falling block traps at 4th level. I am happy to hand out curses, cursed items, high-EGO intelligent items, and have evil NPCs use geas, baleful polymorph, and save-or-die spells. When I really want to scare a player I'll throw a critter 3-4 CR's above their level. I believe that characters should run sometimes.
Now, I do agree that a *poof -- no weapon for you* idea is a bit harsh. How about a radical concept of having the rust monster do hardness and hp damage to a weapon? If it hits 0 hp, it rusts away. What do you think of that idea?
I joined another game, to get some player time. And I was shocked to hear the players whining when they took *damage*. Not a lot of damage, but 10hp at 3rd level! A mere scratch! They pouted and complained that the DM was being too harsh.
I use nightwalkers that crumple intelligent swords on round 1. I squish characters under 10d6 falling block traps at 4th level. I am happy to hand out curses, cursed items, high-EGO intelligent items, and have evil NPCs use geas, baleful polymorph, and save-or-die spells. When I really want to scare a player I'll throw a critter 3-4 CR's above their level. I believe that characters should run sometimes.
Now, I do agree that a *poof -- no weapon for you* idea is a bit harsh. How about a radical concept of having the rust monster do hardness and hp damage to a weapon? If it hits 0 hp, it rusts away. What do you think of that idea?
ValhallaGH
Explorer
Do you still use rez spells in your games? Do you have Restoration, Stone to Flesh, Remove Poison, Remove Disease and Heal? Do you subscribe to the (officially debunked) theory that Sunder is a standard action instead of a melee attack?stevelabny said:
If yes:
How is this change to the Rust Monster any different from having those spells in the game? All of them remove "permanent" effects that can seriously hamper players. That sunder interpretation makes it very unlikely that anyone will every have their favorite weapon broken, removing some great story elements as they get it repaired. If you're going to moan and groan about having Bad Things go away then how about removing the major culprits?
If no:
Sweet! Hardcore play! Dead is dead, ability drain is gone forever, and petrification is a statue. Sounds like a PC slaughter when the big meanies come out, which can make for some really fun game sessions.
Just remember, being on the edge of death all the time gets very frustrating and unfun, exactly the same as never being challenged gets boring.
I really like (most 
) of the conversation generated by this thread. It's really cool to get feedback.
Like I say in the article, designing D&D stuff is a conversation between R&D and gamers. TSR's inability to listen to gamers killed it. That's not something we're interested in repeating. I have a few more monsters to re-develop, then I think I'll go back and do a letters column where I go over feedback from various people.
Keep in mind that these aren't official changes. They're just a look at what dev would do to a beast.
The really interesting thing is looking at how people approach the game in different ways. R&D sort of has to pick one way to look at the game and then design to that approach, leaving individual DMs to veer from that approach as they wish. It would be interesting to do web articles on how you can play D&D variants. I can imagine "hardcore D&D" being something like:
1. PCs are dead at zero hit points.
2. All treasure is random.
3. You can't buy magic items other than potions.
That'd be a pretty fun campaign.
There's also an interesting lesson that falls out of this thread: the worse thing that can happen to players is not to have their characters die. The worst thing that can happen is to have a boring game.
) of the conversation generated by this thread. It's really cool to get feedback.Like I say in the article, designing D&D stuff is a conversation between R&D and gamers. TSR's inability to listen to gamers killed it. That's not something we're interested in repeating. I have a few more monsters to re-develop, then I think I'll go back and do a letters column where I go over feedback from various people.
Keep in mind that these aren't official changes. They're just a look at what dev would do to a beast.
The really interesting thing is looking at how people approach the game in different ways. R&D sort of has to pick one way to look at the game and then design to that approach, leaving individual DMs to veer from that approach as they wish. It would be interesting to do web articles on how you can play D&D variants. I can imagine "hardcore D&D" being something like:
1. PCs are dead at zero hit points.
2. All treasure is random.
3. You can't buy magic items other than potions.
That'd be a pretty fun campaign.
There's also an interesting lesson that falls out of this thread: the worse thing that can happen to players is not to have their characters die. The worst thing that can happen is to have a boring game.
Brother MacLaren
Explorer
I don't really like Rusty having bite damage. See, back in the days of the Basic set, Rusty was a peaceful, harmless little critter, that never did harm to any living thing. And PCs hated and feared it and sought to exterminate it or flee in terror from it. I loved that.
Knight Otu
First Post
It's quite a popular idea, I think. It has been bandied around a few times already. I'd certainly sign the move to such a rust monster.Archade said:
Scribble
First Post
I think personally, at issue was the fact that a CR 3 creature has such an insane power, and not so much the power itself. It instantly konks out the fighters deffense and ability to do damage, without much in the way of a save. That really doesn't sound like a CR 3 power...
It's fine (somewhat) if you're playing with old hats with a lot of metagame knowledge... "I uhh... decide now would be a great time to practice my 10 foot pole skills..."
But with newbs who will only discover the ability AFTER their gear has been wonked? Big effect. If the figther suddenly looses his damage ability, suddenly every other CR in the dungeon just gets higher.
Now, I realise that in a dungeon yeah, hit sappens sometimes... But again, is that power a CR 3 power?
Thus, the redesign. Not to make the game any less challenging, but instead to make the rules flow a little more orderly... (A CR 3 is always a CR 3 and a CR 20 is always a CR 20... if you wanna go ahead and tack on a CR 20 ability to an Orc, that's all you... but the rules should be safely assumed to be what they say they are...)
As for the 10 minute thing... At first I had a similar reaction to a number of people in the thread "What??? How do you explain that!?!" But then I thought, ok so durring those 10 minutes the sword (or whatever) is brittle, but not enough that it cannot be used. The fighter just has to compensate, and thus the penalties.
Afterwards, when the effect is gone, the fighter has simply resharpened the blade or similar to fix the weapon. (Sort of how the rules assume characters in their down time clean and oil their weapons and stuff...)
If the Rust Monster gets enough of it's saliva or whatever it is that does the rusting, on the thing, then the damage is irreperable (is that spelled right?) and Rustie the Rust Monster has himself some lunch. Yum.
It's fine (somewhat) if you're playing with old hats with a lot of metagame knowledge... "I uhh... decide now would be a great time to practice my 10 foot pole skills..."
But with newbs who will only discover the ability AFTER their gear has been wonked? Big effect. If the figther suddenly looses his damage ability, suddenly every other CR in the dungeon just gets higher.
Now, I realise that in a dungeon yeah, hit sappens sometimes... But again, is that power a CR 3 power?
Thus, the redesign. Not to make the game any less challenging, but instead to make the rules flow a little more orderly... (A CR 3 is always a CR 3 and a CR 20 is always a CR 20... if you wanna go ahead and tack on a CR 20 ability to an Orc, that's all you... but the rules should be safely assumed to be what they say they are...)
As for the 10 minute thing... At first I had a similar reaction to a number of people in the thread "What??? How do you explain that!?!" But then I thought, ok so durring those 10 minutes the sword (or whatever) is brittle, but not enough that it cannot be used. The fighter just has to compensate, and thus the penalties.
Afterwards, when the effect is gone, the fighter has simply resharpened the blade or similar to fix the weapon. (Sort of how the rules assume characters in their down time clean and oil their weapons and stuff...)
If the Rust Monster gets enough of it's saliva or whatever it is that does the rusting, on the thing, then the damage is irreperable (is that spelled right?) and Rustie the Rust Monster has himself some lunch. Yum.
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