Rust Monster Lovin'

[Ridley's Cohort]

Er? A longsword is 15 gp. A chain shirt is 100 gp. A MW longsword is 315 gp. By the time you're encountering CR 3 critters, most characters have probably got older equipment they can fall back on if one of their items goes up in green smoke -- or at least have the funds to pick up a new one if they don't. It's not that debilitating!

+1 Platearmor is 2950gp. Might be your prized possession and the bulk of your wealth on that day you encountered 2 Rust Monsters -- one died quickly enough but the other got some hits in. Do you carry some spare chainmail around a dungeon so you can continue?

 

[The_Gneech]

There's also an interesting lesson that falls out of this thread: the worse thing that can happen to players is not to have their characters die. The worst thing that can happen is to have a boring game.

Definitely.

-The Gneech

 

[Henry]

With due respect, Mike, I hope that version never catches hold with the rest of the R&D team. I just don't like it, because I'm not a fan of easily removable conditions and effects. I can understand it, within the context of the game placing more importance on a player sticking with one character throughout the run of a campaign, but it's too light of an effect for it to be a meaningful encounter. Only the most foolhardy of players would ever let that thing live long enough to seriously destroy a suit of plate, or a sword. They could play with the thing for five or six rounds (changing positions, beating it unconscious, etc.) before it ever did anything really harmful. A first level Barbarian would have the thing for dinner by himself before it destroyed his greataxe.

 

[The_Gneech]

+1 Platearmor is 2950gp. Might be your prized possession and the bulk of your wealth on that day you encountered 2 Rust Monsters -- one died quickly enough but the other got some hits in. Do you carry some spare chainmail around a dungeon so you can continue?

Depends on the character and the dungeon. But yes, I keep spare equipment around if I can.

On top of which, if I'm wearing +1 plate and I see rust monsters, I RUN!

There's a quote from Thomas Jefferson (I think it is) which says "the result of protecting men from their own folly, is to create a nation of fools." Similarly, the result of protecting adventurers from negative encounters, is to create 20th level wimps.

-The Gneech

 

[Glyfair]

Oooh. sounds fun. what issue?

The issues subscribers are just getting. #346 (probably a week or two before it hits stores).

Interestingly it has a sidebar from Gary explaining the monsters design. Essentially, they grabbed a bunch of cheap figures from a store and were statting them for Chainmail. The bulette and owlbear were pretty easty to stat, but when they go to what would become the Rust Monster nothing came to them that made this monster dangerous. Gary then decided it would be interesting if the feelers rusted things and destroyed armor and weapons (even enchanted armor & weapons).

 

[Geron Raveneye]

My understanding is that he's a developer. This job it to take products and clean them up the mechanics (and probably related non-mechanics). So he has his fingers in a number of different things at a time.

Lest anyone think I like this version, I don't. Personally, I don't like the 10 minute duration.

However, this does address a major issue with the rust monster. A CR 3 monster that just has to make a single attack to destroy a 20th level fighter's +5 plate mail is a problem. It's along the lines of the 1d4 hit point creature who can cast wish at will. Either the party gets initiative and wins, or else dies quickly.

I like keeping the permanent effect, but making it less automatic. Multiple attacks being required meets this. An effect that players can reverse or prevent if they take time in combat does as well.

Before I read on...does anybody have a good idea why they changed the "classic" rust monster from "rust normal weapons upon hit, take a plus from a magical weapon/armor/shield upon hitting, with those having a 10% chance per plus to resist the effect" to the 3E "hit a metal thing, it rusts, hit a magical metal thing, it must succed a save or be dissolved"?

 

[Gansk]

+1 Platearmor is 2950gp. Might be your prized possession and the bulk of your wealth on that day you encountered 2 Rust Monsters -- one died quickly enough but the other got some hits in. Do you carry some spare chainmail around a dungeon so you can continue?

Why did the designers think of spells like magic weapon, greater magic weapon, align weapon, bless weapon, magic vestment, mage armor, shield, barkskin, etc, if the focus is only on equipment?

 

[Scribble]

Before I read on...does anybody have a good idea why they changed the "classic" rust monster from "rust normal weapons upon hit, take a plus from a magical weapon/armor/shield upon hitting, with those having a 10% chance per plus to resist the effect" to the 3E "hit a metal thing, it rusts, hit a magical metal thing, it must succed a save or be dissolved"?

Probably amounts to about the same thing. (percentage wise) Don't magic weapons get a bonus to save = to their bonus?

And it fell more in line with how other magic stuff resists gettin busted.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

It's interesting to watch people take something they don't like, invent an entire system of beliefs and goals around that thing, ascibe those beliefs and goals to a fictional group, and then pour hatred at that group.

I'd say the core belief of not inconviencing a player too much is part of the 3.x system. It sure seemed that way when I ran it for 2 years. Good or bad that depends on what you want out of the game.

 

[el-remmen]

For me the thing is that this re-tooling of the rust monster reinforces my problem with baseline 3.x, which is the emphasis on the importance of your stuff - which personally I cannot stand.

But anyway, this article is just a bit of mental exercise and even if it were to "officially" change - well, D&D rules an organic and living thing like a language - it changes over time - but it doesn't keep you from talking the way you like.