Ryan Dancey speaks - the Most Successful Year for Fantasy RPGaming ever. However...

[jester47]

QFT.

Hasbro (and TSR before them) seem to have NO DAMN CLUE how software markets work. Remember the eTools fiasco? Geez, what a dog. And the new Eberron game, that's supposed to be a MMORPG? Do they REALLY think it'll compete? If the past examples of Hasbro software is any guess, you'll be lucky if your computer doesn't explode when you unwrap the DVD.

Will MMORPG's take a cut out of RPG's and kill them? Phhhht. No. MMORPG's are limited, you have to put up with 12 year old script kiddies with names like NINJA-MASTER-LOOTERZ-RULZ! and crap like that.

If DONE CORRECTLY MMORPG's could be a fantastic "gateway drug" into RPG's. With the X-Box 360 and PS-3 going to be a fully online system, maybe now is the time for WotC/Hasbro to take a REAL good look at how Blizzard and NCSoft have made such a tremendous success.

Hey, just think of how many people would pick up the core books if THAT had the formulae for how things work on the MMORPG! All the hard core, non-casual gamers would definately grab up a set of Core Rules books if they thought it would give them the slightest edge.

It's a simple thing, but I doubt it would even come up.

MMORPG's require four things...

Clean, easy to use interface.
Large, often expanded world that is interesting and interactive.
Good storyline and engaging plot lines.
MUST fufill gamer power needs.

D&D has DECADES of doing this. Why hasn't Hasbro put out a decent MMORPG? I've got an idea.

Hey Ralts, I don't think Hasbro is mucking about with the DDO property like wizards did with the core tools thing. Atari and Turbine are putting it together, check out www.ddo.com. Looks sweet, sounds good, I guess we will see.

 

[ForceUser]

Looks sweet, sounds good, I guess we will see.

The graphics in DDO look dated and it hasn't even come out yet. That's a bad sign.

 

[Reynard]

I honestly believe that the thing that would most benefit the TRPG community and industry would be a return to organized play. Sure, people can play all theyw ant in their houses with their friends, but these people do not necessarily support the industry or community. Some do, for sure, but others play with their core books and the same group of players they alkways have, never go to cons or EN World, and, effectively disappeared after buying their books and dice. I don't have any numbers, but I would guess lots and lots of people play this way (especially if you look at the purported number of D&D players versus sales and convention attendence).

D&D 3.x is especially well designed for organized play. Everything is codified, the combat is very tactical and visual, and the non combat rules have definitive guidelines (i.e. "Make a Bluff roll -- DC 20.") It is built for relatively small groups -- meaning you can fit lots of them in a space, although it does require more DMs -- and designed for relatively short play at 4 hours (although many people play a whole lot longer, and some shorter -- I have a weekly campaign where we play 3 hours or, and a monthly one where we can go upwards of 10 or 12).

WotC/Hasbro has the resources to make it happen. They need to not just show up at cons, but need reps in the malls, in the libraries, in the game/comic stores, and any other place where you are likley to find 12 to 25 year olds. Make going out to play D&D easy to do, fun and rewarding. Let the kids 'hone their skills' on the small scale and then hit the cons for cash and prizes. Let teams and 'guilds' develope. make people care about playing. Standardize adventure design and character creation processes. Have a Core League, an Expanded League and an Open League.

I know that if this existed, I would continue to play my home campaigns and not feel 'slighted' by WotC. I would also go to these events, partially to compete, or maybe to be a League DM, but also to recruit new players. which would be the whole point, in the end.

 

[GVDammerung]

This is the most important statement that has been made. We should all pay close attention to it - because it could well be true.

It has happened before. Magic:TG cut off that acquisition engine in 1994 and as churn took out older gamers - TSR fell. This was not an accident at the time. WotC killed TSR and then feasted on its remains.

But in all honesty? I have difficulty in feeling great sympathy for Hasbro. The entire concept of MMORPGs, from Ultima, to Everquest, to Lineage i and II , Dark Age of Camelot - Asheron's Call 1 and 2 and the other bit players - and now with WoW - ALL OF IT is essentially using the core concept of D&D and making it into a profit engine.

Where was TSR and later WotC during all of this? They dabbled with the original Neverwinter Nights at AOL (not the Bioware game - the original online version) and then let it slide.

It was as if they came home - found some guy boinking the wife - and decided to go to the living room and watch TV.

The reason they did this? Well...there really is no good reason for this at all. D&D Online should have been created years ago and should be on its third incarnation by now. WoW is reaping the harvest of the demand AD&D created for this type of adventure game product.

So - where is Hasbro? Why haven't they done anything until now?

My opinion, to which I am entitled and to which others are entitled to disagree:

The permanent staffers at Wotc (including a number from that model of acumen TSR) who are now setting the creative direction of D&D would not know an innovative or creative idea if it came up and bit them; they are immaginatively tapped out. They can leverage the brand like no one's business but they cannot come up with "The next Forgotten Realms" or the like. Instead, they must cling to the Realms they have because they have nothing else.

Eberron is not the "next Realms." It is a niche setting that will "hit the wall" soon enough, finding it has reached its reachable audience.

And what's wrong with the good old Realms? It has reached it reachable audience, plateaued and as time reduces the number of folks who early on caught the FR fevor, its plateau will settle.

This leaves Wotc with "the Core." It is a truism that the core books sell best and the father you get from the core, the more you see sales settle. This requires, even damands, that the wheel be reinvented with a new edition every so often. The problem there is finessing the transition when many players are entirely content with the present iteration of the game. The 3X transition was galvanized by the d20 license and OGL. Good luck duplicating that feat (pardon the pun), particularly with all the "OGL has failed" and "PDF's hurt innovation" chatter from Mearls and other Wotc staffers.

From the present position, looking long term, D&D minis offer the only bright spot for Wotc. Can they be leveraged or be sustained over the next decade? Unknown. Every other long term trend is down with the only consolation being that Wotc knows how to work the brand and achieve a "best year ever." Working the brand, however, is not innovation. And "best year ever" as the longer terms trends start moving away from you can only be encouraging to a Pollyanna.

All this might not be a problem but for WoW and its copycat competitors and the likelihood that Blizzard and company will be looking to "top" WoW and, as technology advances will likely be able to do so and in not too many years, if one looks at where we have come since only(and arbitrarally) 1990.

And Wotc fiddles while Rome burns. No ideas. No energy (except to leverage the brand!) No innovation. Featherbedders having the "best year ever" right up until the point they have, suddenly, the "worst year ever" to the surprise of only the Pollyannas.

The sky is not falling but the clouds are lowering and the horizon is shrinking for TRPGs. TRPGs will go the way of model railroading - always there but hardly a "big" business. The "brand leveragers" at Wotc will leverage the brand into near irrelevance because "leveraging the brand" has replaced a drive for innovation.

And, yes. Many don't need Wotc or anybody else to produce product. Fine. You are then irrelevant to the conversation. You got yours and can play with yourself and your friends forever. Have a nice life. For everyone else, there is an issue.

Like it or not Wotc drives the market. Anyone interested in that market has an interest in Wotc and how it does its business. Right now, Wotc is content to rest on its laurels and its minis and let others innovate, be it WoW or what comes next. Sure. Wotc will try to play catchup. Spellfire to someone else's Magic the Gathering. How ironic that, now that the makers of Magic find themselves left to produce the electronic equivalent of Spellfire.

Lead, follow or get out of the way. Wotc cannot lead. Will attempt to follow. But for the same reasons they cannot lead will wind up being forceably moved out of the way.

Wotc would not know an innovative idea if it came up and bit them. All they can do is manage the brand. Right into the ground. Best year ever! Keep repeating that.

 

[Frostmarrow]

For me MMPORPGs are not an option. I dabbled a bit with Neverwinter Nights, created modules, joined a persistent server, and attended LAN-parties. But alas the concept of spawning killed it for me.

Quests and monsters are spawned over and over again. If you die you suffer a minor inconveniance but are soon back in the action. You kill a few waves of monsters, dispatch the main crook and collect treasure. The feeling of being unique is totally lost. "Do you wanna go kill the Cave Troll, again?" "Sure, we are not powerful enough to survive the Killing Fields just yet."

I like being special and that's the reason I'll just keep going to my saturday night WFRPG and my monday night Tribe 8. Soon enough I expect coming back to D&D. I like the idea that me and my friends being heroes. And that is hard to acheive in a world where everyone is Drizzt and flip out and kill people.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

My opinion, to which I am entitled and to which others are entitled to disagree:

The permanent staffers at Wotc (including a number from that model of acumen TSR) who are now setting the creative direction of D&D would not know an innovative or creative idea if it came up and bit them; they are immaginatively tapped out. They can leverage the brand like no one's business but they cannot come up with "The next Forgotten Realms" or the like....blahblah...Wotc would not know an innovative idea if it came up and bit them. All they can do is manage the brand. Right into the ground. Best year ever! Keep repeating that.

Why do I feel that someone's pet project was rejected by WotC recently?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Assuming that you are correct, Whizbang Dustyboots, the question arises as to how to get more of a crossover audience. I think that Hasbro, if it wished, could do a lot with promoting the game to MMORPGs and to a larger audience. Mind you, I do not see much advertising of the D&D game beyond publications that appeal to existing gamers. (Although I do understand there were some ads on the SciFi Channel.)

Well, EverQuest, which did a lot of things wrong, promoted its RPG version by having clues to the beginnings of new quests (in EQ, you had to talk to every NPC you saw, sometimes just firing off words at random at them, to discover quests) in the early versions of the RPGs. There was an incentive to pick up the books, which in turn tempted you towards the MMORPG.

WoW, and other games, could certainly do this. While D&D Online looks like it's going to be something of a trainwreck, Star Wars Galaxies would have been a great platform to support the Star Wars RPG (both are neither in a state to do something like that, of course). Hopefully the Eberron Xendrik book will have ties, overt or otherwise, to the D&D Online game, which is set on Xendrik.

I think White Wolf has created a pretty good model for cross-promotion. If WotC picked that up and ran with it (and had a more robust MMORPG coming out), I think you'd see quite a bit of cross-traffic.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

For me MMPORPGs are not an option. I dabbled a bit with Neverwinter Nights, created modules, joined a persistent server, and attended LAN-parties. But alas the concept of spawning killed it for me.

There doesn't need to be spawning in NWN. If anything, I think a more robust, more easy to use NWN-style game is the natural marriage between MMORPGs and table top.

There only needs to be spawning if you want the location to be useable the same way to a larger audience than just one group. MMORPGs try to deal with this problem in different ways -- in World of Warcraft, the interiors of the dungeons exist only for your groups, although another group can have a similar experience separately.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I've never played NWN with a DM, but I imagine that would be closest to the tabletop of any CRPG I've played so far. Will CRPG's replace the old style in time? I think so, if only by a NWN style setup where we play on PC's and one person is still the DM. As CPU's get more powerful, and as new physics engine cards make the world more and more real and able to be interacted with I think we will see people playing less and less D&D. Since the limitations on what they can do in the Computer world will go away as each new generation of game engines are released.

I find the idea that 3.x is responsible for WoW's success to be very arrogant and foolish. Warcraft was a huge property way before WoW was developed. Blizzard with Warcraft/Starcraft owns the real time startegy market and other games like Diablo just show that Blizzard knows good games.

In any event I agree there is a lot of crossover between players, but I think that there are a lot of people who will never play D&D that spend 40 hours a week on WoW, or EQ, or DAOC, or City of Heroes, etc.

 

[Jim Hague]

One thing I haven't seen addressed yet (and apologies if I missed it) is player-created content. Without PCC, the world is a static and (ultimately) uninteresting place. Tabletop games bypass this problem by and large by their very natures - the characters are in the world, of the world and shape the world, even if its only in regards to them.

Which leads to my second semi-random thought - stasis. Most MMO worlds are static in nature, save when the devs release some new thing or other. I believe Asheron's Call I & II, for their parts, had changing worlds, though I believe that was also at the devs' pace. I think an important marriage here would be to develop some way for the characters to actually affect the world.