S/Z: On the Difficulties of RPG Theory & Criticism

[Fenris-77]

Scandinavia in general seems to be a hotspot for well written RPG theory. I'd recommend reading that whole article for anyone who's interested in the thread topic and hasn't already read it.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Yes, but it is probably necessary. And.. I betcha that the space of commonality is far larger than many of us think.

Oh for sure. I wasn't meaning to imply we can't discuss similarities across games.....I think we absolutely should. I just think that "what D&D does well" is still going to result in a lot of difference of opinion. And that's not a problem, just an observation.

Also... folks should think outside their own preferences a little bit. There is, "I like this," and there's "This is not my bag, but I can see how this would serve other people well." If you cannot accept serving the needs of people who aren't exactly like you... the market for your theory or other creations will be exceedingly small.

Sure. I like all kinds of games, myself, but I know my exposure to games is not as great as many folks here. I simply don't have the time. Fate, for instance, is a prominent game that I have no personal experience with at this point. I plan on picking up a copy and reading it just for greater understanding when people discuss it here, but the need isn't as great knowing it's likely not going to be played at my table any time soon.....we have a queue of games we're waiting to play.

I can say this, I absolutely have benefited from discussion here in that it has led me to look at more games, and to examine what works for a game and why. It's something I feel has impacted my RPGing in a positive way, and I would recommend more folks do it.

 

[Aldarc]

Fate, for instance, is a prominent game that I have no personal experience with at this point. I plan on picking up a copy and reading it just for greater understanding when people discuss it here, but the need isn't as great knowing it's likely not going to be played at my table any time soon.....we have a queue of games we're waiting to play.

FYI, Fate Core (and Fate Accelerated) is Pay What You Want on DriveThruRPG and you can also find most of the contents for these two games plus a handful of their other works on the Fate SRD.

 

[hawkeyefan]

FYI, Fate Core (and Fate Accelerated) is Pay What You Want on DriveThruRPG and you can also find most of the contents for these two games plus a handful of their other works on the Fate SRD.

And now I have Fate. Thanks for the heads up, Aldarc!

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[hawkeyefan]

Good critical theory (or good criticism in general) can focus on what works (@Lanefan ) as well as what doesn't work.

When you apply it to what you're doing, often forcing yourself to consider, "Why does this game feel right to me," or "Why do I not like this mechanic in that game?" you are starting the process of interrogation that should lead to a better play experience.

It's little different than trying to shepherd teens through the transition from reading surface-level works to going to a slightly higher level. "Yes, you like that particular passage. But why?"*

The only issue that I sometimes see is the attempt to universalize a preference, which fails to account for the observable phenomenon that other people are not you, and may have different preferences.

Which goes back to the issue that good analysis should usually be aimed at seeing if the thing in question (the RPG overall, or the specifics within that RPG**) are well-suited for effectuating the intent of the RPG or the specifics within the RPG.

But the entire process of thinking about this- what do you like, what do you not like, and how can you best enhance the things you like (and avoid the things you don't like) should make people have a better experience overall. IMO.

*The answer, of course, will be, "Dunno. It has words."

**I'm not trying to obscure or use jargon, here. By "specifics" I mean "parts" - for example, maybe an RPG overall works for your preferences, but a particular specific (such as a particular mechanic within it) does not work as well.

Yes, I agree with a lot of this. I certainly didn't mean for my comment to @Lanefan about how he and I enjoy D&D in different ways to imply there are not also some ways in which we both like it. But that seems to be what's happened. He and I have talked a good amount on the boards, and although we often disagree, there are also plenty of points on which we do agree.

I think the only thing I disagree with in your post above is that I don't think most folks are trying to universalize a preference. I think that what happens is that people state their preference, sometimes very strongly so, and that can rub others the wrong way, and so they get defensive.

There's a weird phenomenon where if something is offered as a negative in a contextual way, fans of that thing will deny that it is true. But if the same element is mentioned in a positive way, fans will agree.

It comes from both sides of the discussion, honestly. Folks need to be able to state their preference without making it seem like it's the only possible way, and they also need to be able to hear the opinions of others without feeling like their own is being maligned or put down in some way.

 

[Aldarc]

Good critical theory (or good criticism in general) can focus on what works (@Lanefan ) as well as what doesn't work.

The only issue that I sometimes see is the attempt to universalize a preference, which fails to account for the observable phenomenon that other people are not you, and may have different preferences.

My preference for any RPG theory would be one that's descriptive rather than any theoretical model is prescriptive or that imposes a sense of normativity on games. This was arguably one of the problems with the Forge, in that others felt that its criticisms were arguing for a normative perspective on what game should be, which you even touch upon this in the Is/Ought section (#4) of your original post. (Though this normative sense of what games should be is not exclusive to the Forge, but also found in a number of other TTRPG communities: e.g., OSR, story/narrative games, etc.).

 

[pemerton]

at no point can I choose NOT to throw in Cricket. I cannot walk down to the other end, past the batter, and kick over the wicket, can I? If I'm the pitcher (bowler?), I MUST throw the ball, down that line. I have no other options.

Actually, if you throw that's a no ball. And you're a "chucker" (do Americans have the slang "to chuck" meaning "to throw"?)

Bowling has strict rules about how straight the arm must be throughout the delivery (not utterly, but very).

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[hawkeyefan]

@lowkey13 That's a good way to put it, and I think I agree. People do tend to approach topics from their preference. I suppose what I mean is that their excitement or joy with something can sometimes come across the wrong way, and that those same people would likely be the first to say "oh, yeah, of course" when someone reminds them that there are other opinions.

I don't know if the intent is always to imply "my way is best" so much as the fact that "I dig my way" makes it easy to mistake my intent. If that's at all clear