Sahasra: The Land of 1,000 Cities

[jdrakeh]

Except that they aren't really out of place in an India setting (not northern india anyway).

Well, Sahasra isn't set in India but in a fantasy realm analogous to India so, yes, they're wildly out of place given there is not an assumed analogue to the rest of historical Earth. Now, that said...

Mounted Knights are a reasonable approximation of the Moghul horsemen.

Heavily armored mounted knights who adhere to a Chivalric Code based upon service to a deity? Warrior priests who gain power through prayer? These classes may represent foreign influence just fine, but are poor representations of native culture, as they're extremely Western in both appearance and function.

What we tend to forget is that contact between nations around the Indian ocean and along the silk road was going on for centuries and India at its center had a lot of influences from other nations.

I didn't forget. The problem isn't that foreign influences exsist in Sahasra - it's that no specifically setting-appropriate classes or spells are presented (i.e., there are no 'native' classes or magic). As I mention in the review, a good GM can hand wave some of this away, but in fairness, with any amount of handwaving the default D&D Rogue is a poor substitute for a typical Thug (in fact, the Thug has more in common with a D&D Cleric, sans magic).

Point is that there isn't a single class or spell evocative of the setting within Sahasra's pages, rather the reader is referred straight to the core books for both of these things. If it were referring me to the core books for classes or spells from foreign lands (which, actually, sounds like a neat idea), I'd have zero problem with it. Unfortunately, that isn't what Sahasra does - it directs the reader the core book classes and spells, suggesting that they be dropped into the setting whole hog in order to represent native elements of Sahasra.

It's looking as though I may need to step up and create my own setting-appropriate native classes for Sahasra, so if I do this over the holidays, I'll post them in the House Rules forum under a header such as 'Classes of Mythic India' or something. At the moment, I see a need for a Thug, an Elephant Rider, a Cavalry Soldier (not even even remotely the same things a god-charged Paladin), an Infantry Soldier (a kind of Ranger/Fighter hybrid), and (naturally) a Yogi class (possibly with sub-divisions of Raja, Tantric, and Hatha).

Additionally, I think that mantras deserve to be presented as their own system of 'magic' given their utilization by all of India's social castes - a Yogi would, of course, possess a better working knowledge of such things. I susepct that common mantra may be analogous to cantrips in D&D, while more powerful mantra may be analogous to Power Words... of course, you then have the mantramukta (weaponry that was literally 'discharged by mantra' in combat). Hmm... this may take more work than I'd originally anticipated. Ah, well... maybe I'll give it a go in my spare time.

[Note: Yes, I'm aware that Sahasra isn't actually India, but since it is based on India, I figure that naming the classes I create 'Classes of Mythic India' is the route to go, as "Sahasra" is dedicated Product Identity.]

 

[Rafael Ceurdepyr]

The Folkloric line from Dog Soul, to my understanding, was never intended to produce the kind of setting material, with alternate classes and magic spells etc, that jdrakeh asks for. I am sure that both Cathix (Deborah) and Raef (Donna) are around and can correct me, but all of the settings in that line are supposed to be 100% compatible with core DnD. They are supposed to be lands that your paladins and clerics and sorcerers can wander into and out of without changing who they are and what they are. Any of them could be lands across the sea from Greyhawk or Waterdeed or Sharn as is.

Yes, Stormborn, you've hit it exactly. This is the point of the Folkloric series. That said, it would be cool to do some additional books that would flesh it out. And while the world is *inspired* by mythic India, it isn't *actually* India. We didn't want to get into the religion of real India, which is why I talked about the "Pure Goddess" and the "Dark Goddess." It's so that you can insert whichever goddess fits the description in your own campaign.

I definitely think more about Sahasra will be forthcoming.

 

[Cathix]

Sahasra is what we'd intended it to be: a unique setting for GM's looking to add some exotic flavor to their existing d&d fantasy campaign, or inspiration for a unique new campaign.

In 2006, however, we're intending on releasing supplements and adventures based on several of our Folkloric books. Sahasra is one of them.

These supplements will be released through February - December of 2006. We encourage fans of Folkloric to write to us if there's a particular aspect of any Folkloric setting that they'd enjoy seeing explored: litlbeast@dogsoul.net.

That being said, it simply wasn't our intention to release all-inclusive, 100+ page books that read more like campaign settings and less like setting enhancements. We look forward to producing more enhancements and tools that GMs can utlize to give their players something unexpected and unique.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Any chance of seeing this in a hard copy?

 

[jdrakeh]

My only complaint is that he was looking in the wrong place and therefore did not, of course, find all he wanted.

Well, according to the ad copy, I was looking in the right place

but all of the settings in that line are supposed to be 100% compatible with core DnD.

I gathered this, but including core class variations or spells that represent cultural ideals specific to the setting presented in no way diminshes the product's compatability with the core rules. Indeed, the compatibility could remain at 100% while raising the function another few notches on the pole, by giving a GM and players the ability to create native PCs and NPCs that accurately mirror the setting conventions, rather than being forced to house-rule existing (and not wholly appropriate) classes and spells to better fit the setting.

They are supposed to be lands that your paladins and clerics and sorcerers can wander into and out of without changing who they are and what they are. Any of them could be lands across the sea from Greyhawk or Waterdeed or Sharn as is.

I get that, but that doesn't mean that the native cultures must be represented by the core classes in the PHB or that they the native cultures use the same kind of magic as found in the PHB - they might, however, but as I noted in the review they most certainly wouldn't use the same terminology to describe their spells (i.e., 'Magic Missile' might be 'jādū bhālā' in Sahasra, for example). Sahasra natives use different naming conventions when referring to one another as individuals (as outlined in Sahasra), so it stands to reason that they use their native language to refer to spells and other things indigenous to their culture as well.

The Folkloric line is intended to give flavor and setting information for strange lands that are compatible with the PHB, not provide an alternative to the PHB. So I would merely suggested that the products be reviewed based on their stated intention.

Note, again, that including variant classes and spells would not suddenly boost Sahasra to the status of Alternate PHB (see Oriental Adventures, Rokugan, Ravenloft, Eberron, Oathbound, and others for examples of setting supplements that include both of these things without replacing the PHB). As far as setting information... I guess I consider a thorough mechanical representation of native culture to be setting information. Maybe I'm odd in that respect.

BTW, I'd really appreciate if you backed off on the accusation that I reviewed Sahasra based upon what I wanted as opposed to what was advertised. The ad copy says nothing about it being a setting shorn of cultural representation via classes or magic, which are (as noted above) both fairly common features of settings whose key selling point is the exploration of an alternate cultures. I don't think that my expectations were out of line based on what the ad copy conveyed (it's billed as a "setting for d20 fantasy" not a setting enhancement or other such thing).

That said, part of the reason why I posted this thread is that I do, in fact, think that there is a market for Folkloric 'culture books' that present culturally appropriate classes with which to populate the settings, as well as spells, equpment lists, etc that better represent the cultures existant within a given setting. I'd buy such a thing for Sahasra (while I'd still rather see such things folded into the core product, I'm not adverse to buying such a thing seperately).

As I said in the review, I recommend that anybody who has an interest in Indian-inspired fantasy pick up a copy of Sahasra (I just don't think that they should go in expecting, as I did, any mechanical representation of Sahasra's culture).

 

[Staffan]

Year's Best d20 has a Yogi class in it (originally from Complete Guide to Rakshasa), which might be of interest to people running an Indian campaign. They are spellcasters about on par with bards (but of course with a different spell list), with a bunch of cool special abilities.

 

[Cathix]

We do appreciate your recommendation to would-be consumers to purchase Sahasra, James. Thank you!

To Whizbang- I usually produce a print-on-demand version of a Folkloric product in tandem with the pdf version. However, Hurricane Wilma had Sean and I sitting around without power for 2 weeks, and when things got back to normal I didn't have quite enough time to get both versions out the door before year's end.

Look for a print-on-demand version of Sahasra by the middle of January. We'll be putting some of our products into print distribution by summer of 2006, and in all likelihood Sahasra will be one of them. In addition, what you find in your local gaming store may be a bundling of Sahasra products, based on the feedback we're getting now and the feedback we'll receive in the next few months.

 

[jdrakeh]

Year's Best d20 has a Yogi class in it (originally from Complete Guide to Rakshasa), which might be of interest to people running an Indian campaign. They are spellcasters about on par with bards (but of course with a different spell list), with a bunch of cool special abilities.

Sold! There's actually a copy of this at the FLGs, so thank you for the suggestion! I guess that I scratch 'Yogi' and Indian-inspired magic off of my list of things to house-rule then. Much appreciated!

 

[jdrakeh]

We do appreciate your recommendation to would-be consumers to purchase Sahasra, James. Thank you!

No problem. I'm really excited about it, given that I've been waiting to see a widely circulated, India-inspired, d20 fantasy setting for a while now (I love Exalted's setting, but am not so hot on the system). If you crank out a culture book with setting-specific classes and spells, I'll be all over Sahasra like stink on [Hi, Eric's Grandmother!]. I'd love to see this as a product bundle on the shelves of the FLGS (all of the players I know locally are biased against purchasing PDF products).

 

[Balok the Strange]

Greetings, all.

First let me state that both Stormborn and Reaf are, indeed, correct. The purpose of the Folkloric line is to present new and interesting places for DMs to use in their games. These places are inspired by places and times from our own history and mythology. They are not meant to be faithful representations of historically accurate period pieces.

These books are samples of Earthly folklore (hence the title) that have been given a significant d20 spin. D20 is the system in which we operate. We are attempting to use the system as it currently stands without too much amendation. This paradigm is in place to keep the learning curve down. If we introduce an entirely new magic system (such as the suggested mudras) than it becomes necessary for the consumer (usually the GM) to digest the system and learn its nuances before being able to implement its use.

Renaming spells is another matter entirely. Spell names (as well as class names) are a completely metagame concept. They exist within the game system for the benefit of the players, rather than for the benefit of the PCs. The spell magic missile is an inherent part of the D&D experience, but the fact remains that every book ever printed for the system uses that name. That name is only for the players. The PCs in the myriad worlds created by gamers around the world probably have as many different names for the spell on thier world as there are worlds. If we were to rename spells to fit the setting, than we would merely sow confusion amongst the consumers.

While there may be many spells that could have been added to the current lexicon to enhance the flavor of the book, we felt it unecessary to do so. The spells in the PH are more than sufficient for our purposes. The same can be said for the core classes. Again, the names of the classes are merely there so that players can easily identify what their character is and can do. While the name "Paladin" is inherently European, the idea of a holy warrior powered by a god is pretty universal on our world.

I will agree that perhaps we should have included a section to assist or explain how to alter the concepts behind some of the classes. A 'paladin' in Sahasra might not need to be LG or follow a strict code of chivalric discipline, and a 'cleric' might be called a 'priest', 'yogi', 'ascetic' or even a 'buddah' once he or she achieves a properly high level of enlightenment.

The Vancian system of magic that is inherent to D&D, and is a relic of Mr. Gygax's influence, may not seem to be the best for this particular setting. However, to introduce an entirely new magic system with the appropriate spell lists would have resulted in page bloat (the book is already over 70 pages!). It has been our experience that most purchasers of PDF products are not really willing to shell out $15 for a 150 page book, and so we have been forced to bow before market demands to make sales. While I would love to put out 200+ page books, the fact is that at the prices we would be forced to sell them at it would be financially immpossible to do so.

Which is why in 2006 we are planning to release smaller adventures and setting specific locations for most of our Folkloric books! We will be covering some of the resources, places, and people that we were not able to include in the main books, mostly due to lack of space. Our writers are, on the whole, prolific, and we often have to reign them in a bit to keep page counts down!

If there is anything the purchasers of our books would like to see written for them, drop me a line at balok_the_strange@yahoo.com and we will see what can be done to include it in an upcoming product supplement! You ask, we will do our darndest to provide!

And a heartfelt thanks goes out to James for his good review and his recommendation! We try to use the reviews of each of our books to continuously improve the quality of our products, and James has continued the unparalleled level of assistance that the reviewers have provided in the past.