Saint Template...a question

[Sir ThornCrest]

A question to DM'S and players...
The Saint Template can be added to any class, right? However there are some prereqs. And I might add not enough! Its only a +2 L-adj? So if your playing a Cleric, does the loss of two levels even phase you before taking the Saint template? It's like a Monk and the Vow of Poverty, its meant to be.

Do you allow the template in your game for PC'S, or only for NPC's?
Do you tame it down a bit? Take off some of the benefits?

My reason of interest- I have a player introducing a 10th Cleric w/Saint = to 12th level.
How would you alter the campaign for this chareacter? or would leave campaigns/ dungeons / adventures as they are?


Thorncrest

 

[Crothian]

The BoED went back and did something that people really don't like, they tried to balance rules with role playing limitations. The Saint is actually stated in the book to be undercost, now why you admit that and don't fix the thing I have no idea. Bump the LA to +4 .

 

[IcyCool]

*waves his "What Crothian Said" flag*

 

[ThirdWizard]

Not only were they using roleplay to balance the BoED, but it was powered up to balance out the power of the BoVD, which has some very powerful options in it. If you do make use of one, you really should make use of both. Whether or not they balance each other I'll leave to the individual DM and their playstyle to decide, or to someone who wants to give their own oppinion later in this thread.

 

[Crothian]

Not only were they using roleplay to balance the BoED, but it was powered up to balance out the power of the BoVD, which has some very powerful options in it. If you do make use of one, you really should make use of both. Whether or not they balance each other I'll leave to the individual DM and their playstyle to decide, or to someone who wants to give their own oppinion later in this thread.

Balance each other? Not even close. BoED is more powful except for that Vile damage which it can't handle any better then the core rules. That's my experience.

 

[BSF]

The Saint is intentionally overpowered for the LA. I'm not sure I would allow a PC to start as a saint. Earn it through hard roleplaying, perhaps, but to start? In the right campaign, with an excellent background, maybe. Even then, I would likely bump up the LA.

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

what is the Evil option to counter the Saint?

I see VoP for good PC'S and the saint template, what do the evil guys have? NOT FAIR, GOOD ALWAYS WINS WHINE WHINE! And dont say the fiendish template because there already is the counter celestial template.

Thorncrest

Not only were they using roleplay to balance the BoED, but it was powered up to balance out the power of the BoVD, which has some very powerful options in it. If you do make use of one, you really should make use of both. Whether or not they balance each other I'll leave to the individual DM and their playstyle to decide, or to someone who wants to give their own oppinion later in this thread.

 

[Crothian]

I see VoP for good PC'S and the saint template, what do the evil guys have? NOT FAIR, GOOD ALWAYS WINS WHINE WHINE! And dont say the fiendish template because there already is the counter celestial template.

Thorncrest

Its called Vile Damage.

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

good vs. evil

corrupt - purify
???whats good got - vile damage this is spells only right? A evil fighter cant just decide to do vile damage right?
words of creation - dark speech
aligned damage = as per align.
good - bad
pretty - ugly
saint - ????whats evil got?
VoP - ???whats evil got?
touch of golden Ice - (especially with a MOnk) ???whats evil got?

Thorncrest

Its called Vile Damage.

 

[Sithobi1]

???whats good got - vile damage this is spells only right? A evil fighter cant just decide to do vile damage right?
saint - ????whats evil got?
VoP - ???whats evil got?
touch of golden Ice - (especially with a MOnk) ???whats evil got?
Thorncrest

1st, I believe you can take a feat that adds vile damage to your weapon, and a fighter would have enough feats to take this.(If the DM allows it)
2nd, Evil has many more ways of gaining power, such as sacrifices, that good cannot match.
As for VOP/Touch of Golden Ice with monks, monks give up so much that in campaigns following the guidelines in the DMG, these are required just to balance the class (YMMV)